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Thread: Lightwave slogans for the next generation of Releases.

  1. #31
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    didn't say others couldn't continue the sport.

    no hurt in mixing both serious stuff and fun.
    (right ..Why so serious)


  2. #32

    hehe   ouch!

    i don't know, code words might be - film / archviz / games / ads / print / visualization
    Last edited by erikals; 02-10-2020 at 06:23 PM.
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  3. #33
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    hehe   ouch!

    i don't know, code words might be - film / archviz / games / ads / print / visualization
    That is sort of similar to the compressed ..out of the box tool, needs to seperate itself from blender for instance, which they kind of have done with one of the words in the latest slogan (production proven) not sure I could state the same for blender despite it being so bloody marvelous in many areas..just donīt believe itīs been implemented in many studios under production and in pipelines with other tools the same way Lightwave has been, that is not to say that it canīt..itīs just the history of it all.

    On the other hand, considering the new render engine and the relation of the old engine as production proven, or just modeler..and that vs the new render engine as "production proven" it makes you think how well founded that statement is in regards to the render engine of late.

    As to being fast, I think it should be described as fast to what element, and actually connect it to more of enhancing it as being fast in workflow, which I feel to be the case mostly..if we set aside those circumstances when you need to adjust something in a model non destructively.

    Other strong cases could be that it seem to fit in to many pipelines very nicely, so finding something catchy with that perhaps.
    What I do not want to see (as If I would be in charge) that is...model, animate, render.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carm3D View Post
    If an outsider cannot recognize which of these slogans are jokes, they are probably not bright enough to use 3D software and we are doing them a favor.

    We are also doing them a favor by not all acting like Stepford Wives. We love Lightwave, but we recognize...
    +1 exactly my thoughts. I mean c'mon who would base his judgment or purchase decision on a fun thread like this (I don't see it anymore than that).

    If I'm seriously interested and visit a forum to form an opinion of a software, I rather scan the support section to see if there are major technical issues.

    This bitterness and defensiveness is also not doing LW any good and turns threads like this into arguments.

    For some users the slogan should be 'LightWave - my preciousssss'

  5. #35
    Registered User gdkeast's Avatar
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    Maybe this will help?
    https://thesurrealist.co.uk/slogan.cgi?word=LightWave

    LOL. The one I got was "Fill It To the Rim with LightWave."

  6. #36
    Registered User gdkeast's Avatar
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    Seriously though, I think the name alone is fine and personally, I think LightWave is an awesome name. Falling into the line that a picture is worth a 1,000 words and since LW is a 3D program and not a word processing program, I think having some really bad-*** 3D artwork on the website or box or whatever would say more than any words can. And fortunately, there are some very talented 3D LW artists out there that I think could contribute to that. I'd rather see what LW can do versus a slogan.

    But if NT is going to do a slogan, then let's go all in and get Vin Diesel as the spokesperson for NewTek. He could say something like, "I used to live my life a quarter render at a time," or "I ain't got family, I got a forum" and then he morphs into the LW logo, then blows up or something like that.

  7. #37
    Steam username: Carm3D Carm3D's Avatar
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    It generated "We'll Leave the Lightwave On For You"

    I like that one.
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  8. #38
    Almost newbie Cageman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Personally I just canīt help but smile when seeing the slogans used for Lightwave ads.

    Previously we had state of the art, out of the box...old cliches that also in reference to the actual fact surrounding it, also got a bit to old and not entirely accurate.

    Now we have, fresh, fast, easy, proven...as to further emphasize what it isnīt..namely stagnated, slow, hard to learn, and not really proven.
    The current slogan is the kind of obvious slogan that are in the opposite to what in principle no other software would dare to admit either, I could question the two first parts of the slogan.

    Just hoping that they the next time could put a little more effort in being more creative on that slogan side, though it is good though they have dropped the "state of the Art" and out of the box.

    Any good ideas to send to Vizrt
    Production Proven Render Engine (no, I am NOT joking).

    EDIT: I've been working with game cinematics since 2006. LightWave has allways delivered, even during times where you have 1 month to complete 7 movies, which each consists of 2000+ frames to render. Sure, those results will never be able to compete with 3 shots consisting of 300 frames total that took 2 months to get to the level they are. Can you get there with LWs renderengine... of course!

    That said... if I had to do those 7 movies with 2000+ frames each, in any other renderengine, I would also have 7 times the problems to solve. I've worked with Mental ray, Redshift and Mantra. LW is like a dream compared to those.

    Opinions aside... what are your real production experiences with ANY tool? You say LW isn't a proven production tool. I ask this... What do you _really_ know?
    Last edited by Cageman; 02-11-2020 at 09:12 PM.
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  9. #39
    Member devin's Avatar
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    Newtek Lightwave: OK, Boomer.

    (I kid.)
    Last edited by devin; 02-11-2020 at 09:00 PM.

  10. #40
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cageman View Post
    Production Proven Render Engine (no, I am NOT joking).

    EDIT: I've been working with game cinematics since 2006. LightWave has allways delivered, even during times where you have 1 month to complete 7 movies, which each consists of 2000+ frames to render. Sure, those results will never be able to compete with 3 shots consisting of 300 frames total that took 2 months to get to the level they are. Can you get there with LWs renderengine... of course!

    That said... if I had to do those 7 movies with 2000+ frames each, in any other renderengine, I would also have 7 times the problems to solve. I've worked with Mental ray, Redshift and Mantra. LW is like a dream compared to those.

    Opinions aside... what are your real production experiences with ANY tool? You say LW isn't a proven production tool. I ask this... What do you _really_ know?
    Oh no..Michael, you must have misunderstood what I wrote, that wasnīt what i ment anyway..and I have never said in this thread that lw isnīt proven production tool, go to post 33 and read the first paragraph again, and make a distinction between that and the second paragraph, there is a difference when looking at it from those perspectives.
    On contrary I did just mentioned lightwave as production proven in general over the history for many things, and also mentioned that blender isnīt.

    What I said about (perhaps not proven) that was the new render engine in 2019, at least we may not have that many showcases within cinema for instance with the new render engine, that was all said with a big Maybe..and as you yourself has recently stated, it seem to have worked for you and the things you do.

    For me, I have never worked with cinematics and such or for the movies, the only experience for anything near production proven was when I did gymrenders for a company here in sweden, but that is sort of a matter of very little value...since it was done with lw 2010 and fprime also, not anything with the new render engine.

    Itīs just that we do not see so many showcases as before nowadays, especially not from movies...of course there are other fields that counts as well as you have demonstrated.

    But to make things clear, you have worked with lw since 2006, what has that to do with the new release and itīs new render engine? we are all aware of itīs production proven history..so I am a bit confused you mentioned that when I clearly talked about the new render engine...when I was talking about it not production proven certified in the same way as older lightwave versions.

    Second paragraph... (makes you think how well founded) is not an assertment that it isnīt production proven...
    "
    On the other hand, considering the new render engine and the relation of the old engine as production proven, or just modeler..and that vs the new render engine as "production proven" it makes you think how well founded that statement is in regards to the render engine of late."

    First paragraph...

    "blender despite it being so bloody marvelous in many areas..just donīt believe itīs been implemented in many studios under production and in pipelines with other tools the same way Lightwave has been"

  11. #41
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Issues with the new renderer in production, had to hire in another guy to use octane because Mr Rid didnīt have time to learn octane..
    So a ditch of the native renderer, forced to bring in another guy and forced to use octane...

    Can we agree on that production proven isnīt black and white even if it worked out for your company?
    And it is a bit troublesome when someone very well versed in Lightwave speaks up about the issues, gives another perspective to production proven maybe?



    Excerpt...

    started experimenting with Octane at the beginning of this project, but never had time to return to learning it well enough to commit to using it for this shot. So I stuck with rendering in Lightwave 2018. Drastic changes were made late in the schedule, and we began running out of time to complete render at 4k in Lightwave. I also had trouble getting rid of reflection noise in Lightwave, without renders taking way too long. So Pixel Magic hired an experienced Lightwave/Octane artist, Billy Brooks to render the Space Station much faster with Octane GPU rendering.

  12. #42
    Founding member raymondtrace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    ...Can we agree on that production proven isnīt black and white even if it worked out for your company?...
    "Production proven" means it has been proven in production. NewTek does not need to enumerate which productions. Is there an assumption that the software is not beta tested (proven)?

    There's nothing wrong with LW slogans. Slogans can be evidential, aspirational, or both. Focus on the software, not the marketing.
    Last edited by raymondtrace; 02-12-2020 at 07:32 AM.
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  13. #43
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raymondtrace View Post
    "Production proven" means it has been proven in production. NewTek does not need to enumerate which productions. Is there an assumption that the software is not beta tested (proven)?

    There's nothing wrong with LW slogans. Slogans can be evidential, aspirational, or both. Focus on the software, not the marketing.

    I can only point to what Ivé already said about the new render engine not being around for long and the above case...for production proven over the years and that matter I do make a destinction..thus the think about it comment.

    refering to it has been Betatested or that they Need not to enumerate productions,....that is really is a poor excuse as to a showcase that it becuase of that would be "production proven"
    In my opinion, if its working nicely for a certain amount of time in the production field, and especially without not having issues with rendering..which sort of is on huge key factor I think if it is to qualifiy as "production proven"
    itīs not that they had to do advanced simulation or physics behaviour.

    Slogans can be whatever they want it to be, and also something that doesnīt represent the software very well..in fact it can be extreme elevation of it just to make is sound good...that is usually the case in marketing of many products, that is not to say it is a good slogan, when a slogan is catchy and indeed represent the tool to stand out in a founded way..then they got something people may believe.

    If anyone has good ideas of where lightwave stands out to make it even better and more founded when a slogan is up...then that Is just what I wanted to hear about.

    In the end, itīs vizrtīs choice and responsibility and privligie to use whatever slogan they see fit, and they can vithe advice disregard my complaints as a sidenote if they do not agree..and go about their business, or perhaps ..had they gotten feedback about something really great, continue with that.

    Had I myself something good, then I could send them a mail or so, or put it here..but I honestly donīt have one.

  14. #44
    www.Digitawn.co.uk rustythe1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    I can only point to what Ivé already said about the new render engine not being around for long and the above case...for production proven over the years and that matter I do make a destinction..thus the think about it comment.

    refering to it has been Betatested or that they Need not to enumerate productions,....that is really is a poor excuse as to a showcase that it becuase of that would be "production proven"
    In my opinion, if its working nicely for a certain amount of time in the production field, and especially without not having issues with rendering..which sort of is on huge key factor I think if it is to qualifiy as "production proven"
    itīs not that they had to do advanced simulation or physics behaviour.

    Slogans can be whatever they want it to be, and also something that doesnīt represent the software very well..in fact it can be extreme elevation of it just to make is sound good...that is usually the case in marketing of many products, that is not to say it is a good slogan, when a slogan is catchy and indeed represent the tool to stand out in a founded way..then they got something people may believe.

    If anyone has good ideas of where lightwave stands out to make it even better and more founded when a slogan is up...then that Is just what I wanted to hear about.

    In the end, itīs vizrtīs choice and responsibility and privligie to use whatever slogan they see fit, and they can vithe advice disregard my complaints as a sidenote if they do not agree..and go about their business, or perhaps ..had they gotten feedback about something really great, continue with that.

    Had I myself something good, then I could send them a mail or so, or put it here..but I honestly donīt have one.
    sorry, but your taking it out of context, he is a small studio on a tight schedule so had to find a work around, if it was ILM they would have just thrown massive hardware at it, that's what they have to do, just search for how many render hours a big budget production can take, there is a article on the animation Rango, if you tried to render on a single machine with the settings and engine they used it would have taken 180 million years to render, but as they have massive hardware, it only took about 4, its not about what the engine can do, its finding a balance between what you want and what you can do in a given time and what's available for you to do it.
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  15. #45
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustythe1 View Post
    sorry, but your taking it out of context, he is a small studio on a tight schedule so had to find a work around, if it was ILM they would have just thrown massive hardware at it, that's what they have to do, just search for how many render hours a big budget production can take, there is a article on the animation Rango, if you tried to render on a single machine with the settings and engine they used it would have taken 180 million years to render, but as they have massive hardware, it only took about 4, its not about what the engine can do, its finding a balance between what you want and what you can do in a given time and what's available for you to do it.
    No that doesnīt make sense at all..I dare to state not out of context, it is in context to him being in a small studio, where the previous renderer probably would have worked.

    And to clarify..If lightwave is to be considered to be production proven only for ILM and the likes, then I need to change software after midnight.

    Lightwave-production proven within the ILM environment, and if you can afford the hardware, if you are a single small studio..look for something else...Thatīs just great.

    Quote..
    "
    David Ridlen

    The extreme noise occurred with any soft reflections. To have reflection with the PBR material, Glossy Reflections must be enabled. And if you use Standard material with reflection, you need a bump texture to soften reflections, but then the same noise occurred. The old Reflection Blur worked without noise. "

    I think he had two issues, partly octane being faster in general, but also that the noise resolve was taking too long..had he not been faced with the issues of noise, he could have used lightwave native renderer, I donīt see him limited by Amount of hardware there(except for Lightwave being cpu slow to render and resolving noice GI etc) , or was he..was there something in octane that suited better for a renderfarming service?

    I donīt know...maybe David disagree with me and which perspective to take on what is to be fairly called "production proven"
    I wouldnīt bee surprised if he leaves the world of lightwave anytime soon, he sounds a bit tired with a lot of things, but then again..maybe not..he has his skills in it and he may not be up to change software anytime soon either, canīt speak for him...just guessing, could be that he is just resigned about promoting LW ..since he getīs very little respons from newtek, not that it means he would quit using it.

    Quote...
    " David Ridlen
    David Ridlen
    för 2 månader sedan
    Long ago, I gave up promoting Lightwave on any general CG channels. No one cares about Newtek's red-haired, freckled kid. There is always very little response. I rarely even get Newtek to respond. No response from CG Bros. "


    To be fair, I havenīt mentioned that Lightwave wouldnt be production proven as a verified fact, I mentioned there was issues and you may think about wether it is or not..thatīs a completely different matter.
    And to be fair, David Managed to crank out a few shots for the Green book, using lightwave 2018...How much issues he had with the render engine for that shot, I donīt know..a different case perhaps where he didnīt need the same lighting and reflections/GI etc, and thus he may not have had the same issues, and in that case it did the job just fine and dandy.


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