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Thread: Input needed - IT is locking our TC8k out of the network and have to replace it

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    Input needed - IT is locking our TC8k out of the network and have to replace it

    Well, IT did what I thought they'd do and they've notified me that our 8000 will be locked out of the network the day MS ends support for W7. This is a huge setback for us at the American Cancer Society because now it means we either shut down our entire studio or buy an entirely new system. Shutting down isn't an option so now we have to spend a lot of donor-dollars to replace an otherwise perfectly functional machine just because the OS is EOL.

    I am looking at the TC1, but it only has 4 SDI ins and all of my programs run at least 4 cameras. The TC1 will meet our basic requirements, but once I add a camera, I am beyond the capability of that box. I guess my option at that point is to buy an additional NCI I/O, correct? Oh look - B&H has that combo on sale for $35k. Lucky us.

    I looked at the Blackmagic line and to get us up and working would be around $25k, but unless I am not seeing everything - we'd lose some technical capabilities. (But gain others...)

    What are some of you doing?

  2. #2
    How many cameras do you need to add? Sparks (or Magewell/Blackmagic units) unit are another way to expand the input count of the system.
    Kane Peterson
    Solutions Architect
    NewTek, Inc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kanep View Post
    How many cameras do you need to add? Sparks (or Magewell/Blackmagic units) unit are another way to expand the input count of the system.
    Depends on the shoot, really. I have had every SDI input filled on our 8k. Rare, but it has happened.

  4. #4
    Getting 4x Spark/BirdDog/Magewell units will be less expensive.
    Kane Peterson
    Solutions Architect
    NewTek, Inc.

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    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    There's also this option, which can handle up to 8 SDI sources: https://www.newtek.com/connect/nc1-io/
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    Registered User GThomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhodlick View Post
    Well, IT did what I thought they'd do and they've notified me that our 8000 will be locked out of the network the day MS ends support for W7. This is a huge setback for us at the American Cancer Society because now it means we either shut down our entire studio or buy an entirely new system. Shutting down isn't an option so now we have to spend a lot of donor-dollars to replace an otherwise perfectly functional machine just because the OS is EOL.

    I am looking at the TC1, but it only has 4 SDI ins and all of my programs run at least 4 cameras. The TC1 will meet our basic requirements, but once I add a camera, I am beyond the capability of that box. I guess my option at that point is to buy an additional NCI I/O, correct? Oh look - B&H has that combo on sale for $35k. Lucky us.

    I looked at the Blackmagic line and to get us up and working would be around $25k, but unless I am not seeing everything - we'd lose some technical capabilities. (But gain others...)

    What are some of you doing?
    You may have already thought of it, but could you just get an external encoder and take the TC off the network completely? Something like this: https://www.aja.com/products/helo.
    Gabe Thomas

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    Quote Originally Posted by GThomas View Post
    You may have already thought of it, but could you just get an external encoder and take the TC off the network completely? Something like this: https://www.aja.com/products/helo.
    Yeah, thought about that too, but I've got a few sources on the network that I regularly pull into our shows. Pushing a signal out of the TC to air isn't a problem. It's getting the signals from other sources into the machine that are challenging. I've got 3 panasonic 130's, two macs, a PC, and the Talkshow VS4000 that all are on the network and active parts of most of our programs. Sometimes SDI, sometimes net - depends on the needs of each show.

    Honestly, NDI is the 'kiler app' part of the Tricaster that knocks the otherwise perfect ATEM systems out of top billing. In order to do what I do now, I'd need at least 3 - 4 Decimators to take my PC and Mac sources and spin them to SDI in the correct format. That said, the ATEM 4 m/e Broadcast, 2 m/e control panel, Hyperdeck Pro, 4 HDMI converters, and 4 decimators ($23.5k) would have me below the price of the TC1 select bundle ($25k). The ATEM would give me 20 4k capable SDI inputs (4 would be eaten by the 2 channels of GPX with alpha) versus the 4 of the TC1, and I'd never have to worry about an operating system bagging me. Plus, the ATEM's can have part of the system fail and you'd still be broadcasting.

    But I'd lose NDI, and the agility of the TC's inputs in regard to resolution. BM just released the ATEM Constellation that is input-agile, but it would be more than the TC1 system.

  8. #8
    Why doint you just turn off windows updates and mask 7 with a 10? Just asking...im not being fecicious... -s

    i mean windows 7 will run forever and no one would now you were not running windows 10..seems easy enough...you probably don't need a mask tho...just turn off updates.
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  9. #9
    If you are not aware, there is a trade in credit available for your TC8000 going to a TC1.
    Kane Peterson
    Solutions Architect
    NewTek, Inc.

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    Three other things to note of ATEM vs TC1.

    1. Two channels of built in Skype. To do this on the ATEM would take two external PC with scan convertors and a whole lot of shenanigans with audio.

    2. Blackmagic support, or rather the lack of it, other than from the reseller.

    3. NDI ecosystem, which gives you a whole lot of options for working with other vendors independently from NewTek.

    Now, all that said, what about putting a little standalone firewall device on the network connection to the 8000. You could have your it folks manage it. They could lock down anything other than the streaming, NDI and control ports and even limit where you could connect to outside (just YouTube and NewTek, for example). These little firewall boxes aren't expensive. Once your IT people have certified that the 8000 is in good health, they can lock it down for future access.

    https://www.amazon.com/SafeStream-TL...55323546&psc=1

    Fritz Golman
    Museum of Broadcast Communications
    Last edited by fgolman; 02-08-2020 at 02:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fgolman View Post
    1. Two channels of built in Skype. To do this on the ATEM would take two external PC with scan convertors and a whole lot of shenanigans with audio.
    We have a VS4000, which I would keep in service.

    Quote Originally Posted by fgolman View Post
    2. Blackmagic support, or rather the lack of it, other than from the reseller.
    We have a few BM items. A lot, actually. Never had one fail, so I can't speak to their support.

    Quote Originally Posted by fgolman View Post
    3. NDI ecosystem, which gives you a whole lot of options for working with other vendors independently from NewTek.
    Yes - this is, as I said earlier, the killer app of the NewTek infrastructure.

    Quote Originally Posted by fgolman View Post
    Now, all that said, what about putting a little standalone firewall device on the network connection to the 8000. You could have your it folks manage it. They could lock down anything other than the streaming, NDI and control ports and even limit where you could connect to outside (just YouTube and NewTek, for example). These little firewall boxes aren't expensive. Once your IT people have certified that the 8000 is in good health, they can lock it down for future access.
    Great idea, and I will pitch that to them. That said, we also have to be HIPAA compliant and IT has a strict "zero risk" policy in regard to the network. Thanks Fritz.

    Kane, I'll also look into the NT rebate. The truth is, the 8000 and CS combo still has a five-figure market value so a large portion of the replacement cost could be offset by selling the system post-purchase.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by dhodlick View Post
    Kane, I'll also look into the NT rebate. The truth is, the 8000 and CS combo still has a five-figure market value so a large portion of the replacement cost could be offset by selling the system post-purchase.
    I'm positive you will get more if you sell it yourself, but I know at some places that is difficult to do.
    Kane Peterson
    Solutions Architect
    NewTek, Inc.

  13. #13
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhodlick View Post
    ... and IT has a strict "zero risk" policy in regard to the network.
    So, no computers connected then? Or did they just disconnect from the internet?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    So, no computers connected then? Or did they just disconnect from the internet?
    LOL - touche!

    Keeping the computer infrastructure here patched with the latest OS patches and hotfixes plays a big part in keeping us HIPAA compliant. If we had a data breach and it was determined that ACS was allowing an un-patched and un-supported machine on the network, and that machine was the source of the breach, we'd be wide-open to legal liability and thereby financial damages. Not to mention the risk of exposing peoples private health data to the world.... To the IT department, it is either compliant or it isn't. If it isn't, it's not allowed on the network.

    Is there an NDI to SDI box of some sort out there? I see a LOT of SDI to NDI, but not many that are the other way around. I know I could build a PC with a 4-port SDI card to take the NDI sources and spin them down those 4 pipes, but it would be cool if there was just a cheap one-port box. I know about the Bird Dog box, but it's $650+...

    Thx
    Last edited by dhodlick; 02-10-2020 at 10:14 AM.

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    Magwell, but marked as "Coming Soon" so not sure about price:

    http://www.magewell.com/products/pro-convert-aio-rx

    Fritz Golman
    Museum of Broadcast Communications
    Last edited by fgolman; 02-10-2020 at 10:20 AM.

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