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Thread: Asteroids as densely packed balls of rubble...

  1. #1
    May the sauce be with you starbase1's Avatar
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    Asteroids as densely packed balls of rubble...

    Hi All,
    I'm looking at photos of the steroid Bennu...

    As seen here:
    https://www.asteroidmission.org/gall...craft-imagery/

    Or more specifically here:
    https://www.asteroidmission.org/3_as...u-rotation_sm/

    I'd love to do something along these lines, looking like a densely packed ball of rubble, but I'm struggling to come up with even a starting point.
    I did try getting a bunch of points on something with the correct overall shape, and using them for hypervoxels, but it looked absolutely awful.

    Any suggestions for an approach that might work please?

    Thaanks, Nick
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  2. #2
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
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    Displacement from some rocky/pebbly ground texture not do?
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  3. #3
    May the sauce be with you starbase1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RebelHill View Post
    Displacement from some rocky/pebbly ground texture not do?
    Not sure...
    My gut feeling is that the lumps would look to smooth, and getting the varied colours per rock would be tricky too...
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  4. #4
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RebelHill View Post
    Displacement from some rocky/pebbly ground texture not do?
    Donīt think that would be enough..
    real photogrammetry, form some stony rocky area..but that is almost cheating

    A mix of displacement, instances and fractured pieces.
    I would suggest fracture out or create 10-20 individual smaller stone and gravel pieces with different size and shape, those should be all instanced in variations as well, distribute over a displaced area.

    But also...use bullet and fracturing and let it collaps to have pebbles and rocks, you should be able do to that in Lightwave..but I would also recommend using blenders fracture build, which will fracture pieces in realtime..and then just apply dynamics on it.
    Then itīs a matter of distrubuting the pieces over the rest of the previous made pieces.

    I recall Lino doing some nice samples with displacements only for Lightwave some years ago, but I think for adding exra realism, thereīs got to be cracks and pebbls in true shape as well.

    But if you got the equipment and the time, go out to some sandpit and take photos from a lot of angles and do some photgrammetry, if you got the money and are lazy and have no concerns of your own artistry..buy a set of photogrametry rocks.

    Itīs not that hard to do rocks in lightwave, but there is a free little rock generator in blender so you can use and save out some smaller rock and stone pieces from, with od tools it should just be a matter of copy and paste in to lightwave...

    I also think itīs nice to sculpt brushing with anchored method to better localize place your "displacements" possible you can do that with metamorphic, but itīs too darn slow for denser meshes..would recommend blender for it, then use alpha brushes...wether it is your own or purchased zbrush alphas, then add fractured smaller pieces distributed on that with particles and instancing.




  5. #5
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
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    I dont see why not... you get some pretty realistic textures out there for stony ground, with displacement...

    https://www.textures.com/browse/3d-s...ground-various

    Its going to look a lot more realistic than anything you can make otherwise. As for smoothness of lumps, use a primitive object, infinite detail, so it all comes down to the map, and for the colour variation... all depends on the colour map.
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    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RebelHill View Post
    I dont see why not... you get some pretty realistic textures out there for stony ground, with displacement...

    https://www.textures.com/browse/3d-s...ground-various

    Its going to look a lot more realistic than anything you can make otherwise. As for smoothness of lumps, use a primitive object, infinite detail, so it all comes down to the map, and for the colour variation... all depends on the colour map.
    Thatīs not all just displacement, itīs got to be microdisplacement,not sure what they used for the displacement, I think that is a level you do not get with standard displacement in Lightwave..but as mentioned, a lot of that is probably real photogrammetry converted to displacement maps.
    But as you and I said, primitive object may be the way..but will be slow to render.
    Maps are indeed looking good.

    And for those maps, for proper detail..I suppose you need to purchase it, which may be out of the question for Starbase..if he can get something near that (which obviously is hard) by doing it all himself.
    Thereīs also rock essentials..but that means delving in to blender a bit.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs5nBoIxnOg

  7. #7
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RebelHill View Post
    I dont see why not... you get some pretty realistic textures out there for stony ground, with displacement...

    https://www.textures.com/browse/3d-s...ground-various

    Its going to look a lot more realistic than anything you can make otherwise. As for smoothness of lumps, use a primitive object, infinite detail, so it all comes down to the map, and for the colour variation... all depends on the colour map.
    Thatīs not all just displacement, itīs got to be microdisplacement.
    But as you and I said, primitive object may be the way..but will be slow to render.
    Maps are indeed looking good.

    Nothing beats real nature..although coming across a real case of asteroid surface isnīt easy, though there is so much in the structure of asteroid rocks that often resembles real rocks on earth.. so you may get away with real nature.

    Primitive shape assumes Starbase has 2018-2019 versions.

  8. #8
    May the sauce be with you starbase1's Avatar
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    Now those look pretty good to me...
    Though a bit of a slog to convert the texture to go seamless on a sphere...
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  9. #9
    May the sauce be with you starbase1's Avatar
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    To start with, slow to render is not a problem. I often find that once I understand what's going on, I can speed things up!
    And while free is nice, I have no objection at all to spending a bit of money on assets.

    I don't know Blender (well, not beyond simply loading native Blender objects and exporting them in a LW Friendly manner)

    I have LW 11.6, and 2019, currently wrapping my head around RH's tutorials!
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  10. #10
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starbase1 View Post
    To start with, slow to render is not a problem. I often find that once I understand what's going on, I can speed things up!
    And while free is nice, I have no objection at all to spending a bit of money on assets.

    I don't know Blender (well, not beyond simply loading native Blender objects and exporting them in a LW Friendly manner)

    I have LW 11.6, and 2019, currently wrapping my head around RH's tutorials!
    Then I suggest looking in to purchasing photogrammetry textures as Rebellhill suggested, those look great, there are other resources as well, so take some time and look at what you need and the cost etc, textures.com seem to have been improved though and you can always download a lower size of the textures before purchasing, just create an account there if you do not already have one that is.

    As for blender, I suggest you just download the 2.81 experimental build or later, the first thing you should do is go to file, new and choose sculpting..it will add a sphere ready to start sculpting with and a workspace with the brush tools etc, looks a bit different than my sample vid since that was an older blender version, but you should be able to see how simple it is to choose a texture and drag out to apply a height map.
    If you happen to have zbrush, you could sculpt your own rocks, grab the docs as alphas and use that in blender, or in zbrush itself for that matter...for me I just prefer the UI of blender, while it can not do all the fancy zbrush stuff, it is good for a lot.

    And as you donīt mind slower renders, getting photogrammetry textures and apply to either a plane or the other primitive shapes is probably what I would suggest..there will be an issue if you still want to distribute small pieces of pebbles on to a primitive shape, since you just can not instance or distribute it with particles on a surface etc..thatīs a bit of a disadvantage of it, not sure if you could use a dummy mesh displace object with the same displacement and get the same scaling etc, and use that for distribution, then hide or deactivate that mesh..so it was just serving as a surface guide for the smaller pieces, and it will look like it is following the shape primitive objects surface..but a bit of a tedious workflow.

  11. #11
    May the sauce be with you starbase1's Avatar
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    Thank you very much for taking the time to give such a detailed explanation, I appreciate it!
    Faith is the opposite of Intelligence.

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  12. #12

    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    A mix of displacement, instances and fractured pieces.
    yep.   
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