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Thread: Bump vs Displacement in DAZ 3D to LW

  1. #1
    Registered User gdkeast's Avatar
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    Bump vs Displacement in DAZ 3D to LW

    Good day,
    I have been messing around with importing a DAZ 3D model into LW.

    My only question is with the displacement map. I can apply the map either from the bump to bump, or I can go from luma to displacement.

    Is it correct to say that the only difference between them is that bump only affects the surface while displacement affects the surface and the geometry, that is, somewhat increasing its size?

    Image is bump to bump with DP map.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bump1.png 
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  2. #2
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdkeast View Post
    Good day,
    I have been messing around with importing a DAZ 3D model into LW.

    My only question is with the displacement map. I can apply the map either from the bump to bump, or I can go from luma to displacement.

    Is it correct to say that the only difference between them is that bump only affects the surface while displacement affects the surface and the geometry, that is, somewhat increasing its size?

    Image is bump to bump with DP map.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bump1.png 
Views:	37 
Size:	1.13 MB 
ID:	146604
    sort of, displacement doesnīt really affect the surface other than how light and shadow will change due to transformed polys, or if you plug the displacement in to the surface input as well.
    and bump only affects surface yes.

    And of course, bump you can use without dividing you mesh..while displacement requires often a dense divided mesh.
    displacement isnīt foremost a matter of increasing size, itīs foremost about transforming ..displacing your polys..and with that may come a size change depending on how the displacement is applied in x-y-z axis, or in full normal direction wich sort of inflates the object based on the texture used to displace it, so in such case it could increase in size.

  3. #3
    Registered User gdkeast's Avatar
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    Thank you. Yeah, I was rewatching Rebel Hill's LSR series and he goes over a lot of what I was wondering about. After watching that, I got the sense it is really just a lot of playing around with color spaces and the things you mentioned. I have to say the FBX interchange in LW is pretty awesome now. I used to have all kinds of trouble importing fbx, but now it comes in pretty well with just a few adjustments having to be made.

    Thanks!

  4. #4
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    AS for displacements, the workflow in my opinion took a bit of a beating in terms of finding and accessing it in 2019 vs 2015, previously it was located under geometry deform, directly hinting there is where you deform your mesh, and it was a one click button to get to the textures.

    As it is now, that is removed and replaced as modifiers, where you have to make sure to check it is active first, then double click it, a few steps more..but things like that kind of degrades the previous fast acess and user friendlyness.

    And to know, there is four of these modifers you have to take in account when choosing and using displacement, subdivision should be active, and then clicked on to access the amount of divisions if you have a subpatched object ( you can toggle it on and off as supatch, you must first either have hit tab for subpatch in modeler for that saved object, or you either toggle it on in layout/model/toggle subpatch..only then will the subdivision modifier work, but when tha is done you can toggle it on or off with the check mark in that list.

    then you got the displacement map, it will open up the standard displacement and you adress either x-y-z axis, but no normal displacement, this displacement is saved with the scene, so you can replace the object with another mesh and the displacement should be applied on that objec, but will obviously look differently.


    Then you got nodal displacement, this displacement is saved by scene as the standard displacement, but here you can use full nodal control, but have to setup nodal and either x-y-z displacement or normal displacement within the nodes.

    Then you got the surface displacement, this displacement is not saved by scene only, but with the surface applied to the object in matter, it will respect normal displacement.
    The surface displacement is the one that is a bit wonky in UI access, since you need to set itīs displacement distance by double clicking on it to access it (this is a feature that should be within the surface settings)
    And then you can not access the displacement by double clicking on the surface displacement in the list, you have to go to the surface editor, double click on the surface to enter the nodes, then setup the displacements from there.

    Surface displacement has some advantages though, since you can adress both displacement and surfacing with the same nodes, and you can replace objects with other objects that has a different surface displacement without having to think about changing scene etc, and you can save a surface preset with displacement to use on various objects, though you still need to be aware of the displacement distance in the modifier and have to change that each time, thatīs why I would want a control for that within the surface.

  5. #5
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    There are a several things with the Daz items that will vary from how the orig artist used them to naming conventions, Iray vs. not, etc. Then again, the FBX export process still has some quirks but mostly with Parenting & less with surfacing. I've gotten displacement stuff from Daz (water ripples) to work via the Object panel rather than the surface material nodes.

    I generally use the OD Tools PBR importer even though there's often a lot of manual linking again due to naming convention. Newer products will often have most of the set for PBR but many older products don't. I just mostly completed such a resurface where the textures & diffusion values imported via OBJ as Standard, but LW wanted the sRGB version, using Daz's values as if so way too desaturated) & have Transfer mode set to Photoshop Multiply. Fun. Ya can't group change that in Surface panel.

    Also ran into (again) an issue that seems to have happened with the 2018 changes. I had a bunch of billboard plants that were working for the mostpart, but if there was a line of camera sight visual overlap like a Venn diagram, I got a nice black rectangle. The billboards were each pairs of opposite facing single sided polys with a minute gap separating them. What took me a day & half to track down is that when imported, what was supposed to be used as a Clip Map was only getting set into the Transp channel. When I coped that chan & pasted into the Clip Map, they all started to work as supposed to.

    I forgot I'd picked up some XFrog libraries & that that happen. Think they worked correctly with 2015 though.
    "Never be a cat in a cartoon. Never." Chief Wiggum

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