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Thread: Shifting In/Out Points in DDR without Mouse (but macros)?

  1. #1
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    Shifting In/Out Points in DDR without Mouse (but macros)?

    Hi,

    I often have the problem that I'm replaying parts of a live show in slow-motion with a 850 TW Control Surface but I'm not able to shift the In point to an earlier position than the actual In point. Precisely it means the following:

    Recording is running, I'm pressing IN for an In point and press OUT for an Out point. Like that I have the clip in the DDR and could play it. But then sometimes Iwant to get into the clip 2 seconds earlier. When I shuttle backwards I'm not able to override the actual In point to the negative and set there a new In point. I can do this only by taking the mouse and slide the bracket, but using the mouse in a live show (and especially if I have a 850TW for this special case) isn't practical and it isn't very accurate as well.

    So I tried to configure some macros to trim the IN/out points without mouse. There are commands like "ddr_relative_time" or "ddr_scrub_to_time_from_beginning", but all these commands won't override the actual In point and are ending at this location.

    So my question: Is there any other command which would define that the new In point should be e.g. 2 seconds before the actual In point (respectively the Out point later than the actual one)? Or, even the better way, a key which I could press to shuttle above the actual In point on the 850TW? That would be very helpful.

    Thanks.

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    Which TriCaster mode, running which software like Standard Edition, or AE2, or??

    I've not used the 850TW - does it physically make a new clip each time you mark IN and OUT? If so, then you would not be able to jump to an earlier time than when the recording started.

    If it works like the Replay feature in AE2, where the video is being recorded in the background without interruption, and marking new replay clips that get added to DDR simply creates "pointers" to that larger growing recording, try this macro (works for AE2)


    ddr2_scrub_to_time_from_beginning -1
    10.00 ddr2_mark_in
    10.00 ddr2_set_currentframe_as_thumbnail


    Of course the -1 at end of first line represents how many seconds to go back, change as desired. The delay values on lines 2 and 3 (in frames) are necessary or things don't happen correctly. If working with 60p, might need to increase delays?

    Thanks

    Jeff
    Jeff Pulera
    Streaming Broadcast Solutions - Newtek Elite

    TriCasters: Mini with AE, TC1
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  3. #3
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    I thought I remembered this working, just tested on a 7-1 system: Hold down Shift while using the TW-850 wheel to move outside the established in/out points, then use ALT + In/Out to update the existing set points.
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    Hi Jeff, Hi Steve,

    Thanks a lot for your quick reply. I'm sorry, I forgot to mention my actual system because I also made a bug report and declared it there:
    I've got the TCXD8000 Standard Edition, build 2-6-191002C, so the latest version of the SE.

    I already tested both proposals, the macro and shuttling with the Shift key a few days before. Both didn't work. And now I tested both again - no success.

    The macro just rewinds to the actual In point but can't access the area in the negative of that point. Using the macro with positive values in the area between In and Out point works, but I can't access a point before. The only way to do this is via mouse. And even if I record a macro while doing that with the mouse creates a "ddr_scrub_to_time_from_beginning" but can't replicate it afterwards.

    And shuttling on the 850TW with ALT pressed doesn't work (neither with all other keys like CTRL or ALT).

    Could it be that this specific feature was forgotten in the Standard Edition and was only implemented in the AE?

    Thanks,

    Thomas

  5. #5
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomhorn View Post
    Could it be that this specific feature was forgotten in the Standard Edition and was only implemented in the AE?
    I'm afraid it's likely that it was never a 2-6 feature. We stopped shipping 2-6 systems quite a while ago now, and I think it's at a point where it's only getting critical maintenance. I'm not 100% sure whether 5-1 supports this functionality or whether it's more recent than that, don't have a unit nearby to test with just now.
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    Oh no, this is very annoying. I'm really out of luck with my TriCaster.

    It could be a great system, but I've only got problems with the unit and all accessories I bought for several thousand dollars the last years. E.g. I purchased three AVID Artist Mix to work professionally with external faders, but the units and software are not really well implemented and controlling the internal audio mixer with them is painful. And the 850TW I bought to control the DDRs without a mouse doesn't seem to do what it promised.

    I purchased the 850TW explicitely to scrub the clips because this is very annoying with the mouse. And now exactly this won't work as soon as I have an In point. Having a $2500 unit which can't scrub and which can do less than the mouse is not a missing feature but a bug. Isn't there a way to copy this function from the later version to the next 2-6? All other parts of the macro work but only moving outside of the In/Out points won't work. Without that part the unit is pretty useless for me.

    Jeff is writing that the macro to scrub outside the points is working in AE2 so the Shift Shuttling on 850TW should also work in 5-1? But I guess my TCXD8000 system won't work with the AE, the NewTek Hardware Check says the nVidia drivers appear to be too old, but the system says it's the best one installed. Not very promising...

    Best,

    Thomas

  7. #7
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    You may be able to work out something with macros to jog back and change the in/out point a second or so at a time, not sure. You can certainly easily reset the clip to its full length, though (g key).

    I don't think the old software ever supported scrubbing outside the bounds. Realistically, I do not see much hope of feature creep on a version as old as 2-6. (The nVidia driver topic should probably go in another thread to avoid confusion.)
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    Regards, Steve
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by tomhorn View Post
    But I guess my TCXD8000 system won't work with the AE, the NewTek Hardware Check says the nVidia drivers appear to be too old, but the system says it's the best one installed. Not very promising...
    All TC8000 systems will work with AE2 (5-1). AE3 (7-1) might be an issue if your TC8000 is a very early unit (we are talking systems from 2012/2013). If you system can only go to AE2, you can contact your NewTek reseller/rep for your area and they can get it worked out to get a license upgrade for that version of software.
    Kane Peterson
    Solutions Architect
    NewTek, Inc.

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    Thanks, Steve and Kane.

    AFAIK my TCXD8000 is an upgraded former TCXD855, so investing a lot in this old system probably won't be worth it. But unfortunately I've got absolutely no budget for a new one.

    So I'm coming back to the initial questions and your latest proposition, Steve, about doing the trimming via macros. Is there any way with a macro to clear only the actual In point but keeping the playhead at its current position and keeping the Out point (and vice versa to change the Out)? I tried different ways to clear the In but then the playhead always jumps to the absolute start of the whole (still running) recording and I'm not able to find again the position of the forner In to substract e.g. 2 seconds for a new In. If I could do this with macros (which work in SE) that would be a workaround for the 850TW. Is there a list wirh all possible macros or does anybody know how to manage this?

    Thanks and best,

    Thomas

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    It seems like the older version prevented you from using the scrub from beginning method which is what I use on the TC1 to break out of the current time stamp. What about clearing the in point which resets you to the first frame, but then using _scrub_to_time_from_end along with the original duration you use (8 seconds or what ever you currently use) which should put you back where you started but without the in point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stp_productions View Post
    What about clearing the in point which resets you to the first frame, but then using _scrub_to_time_from_end along with the original duration you use (8 seconds or what ever you currently use) which should put you back where you started but without the in point.
    The idea is fine but since every clip has a different duration I can't define a fixed time to scrub backwards. If there's a possibility to read out first the actual clip duration with a macro and then clear the In and scrub back from end the read out former duration I would end up at the point I want to. That would be great. Does anyone know if there could be a macro to read this information? And once again: is there a complete list of all available macros for the DDR to combine something like that?

    Thanks,

    Thomas

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    They got rid of the macro stand alone guide that used to be in the automation section. For my TC1 its now in the shortcuts guide in the web interface when you open the browser and goto the tricaster's ip address. They then have sections such as DDR that show you macros for that given section.

    With that being said how are these clips being created? I have only used the replay from the interface, which always makes the clips the duration specified in the configuration. ie: 8 seconds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stp_productions View Post
    With that being said how are these clips being created? I have only used the replay from the interface, which always makes the clips the duration specified in the configuration. ie: 8 seconds.
    With the 850TW connected it works like Jeff said:
    The video is being recorded in the background without interruption, and pushing IN and OUT on the 850TW during live marks new replay clips that get added to the DDR. So the duration depends on the difference between pushing IN and OUT.

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    Ohhhh i got ya. Will post back if I have any crazy ideas. I know there is one macro that is seek a certain amount of frames and can break out of the in/out point but that is more of a Jump back and be done. You could obviously assign that to a button and hit it multiple times etc.

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    Isn't that the "ddr_scrub_to_time_from_beginning -1" Jeff already supposed or the "ddr_relative_frame"? That would do it but doesn't work in SE but only AE since it can't override the actual In point. Yesterday I tried to clear the In, jump to the Out and scrub back to the desired new In, but that is useless since I have to find again the former In point and I lose a lot of time by doing the work twice.

    So something like putting a marker at the current position or read the actual duration before clearing the In point and then jumping back there would be great.

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