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Thread: Newtek, please announce LW2020 or provide another fix update for LW2019!

  1. #286
    Super Member Chris S. (Fez)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    how many companies or users would have access to similar resources, in the lw userbase?
    The online render farms with Lightwave work great and are extremely reasonably priced. As for Arnold render farms...Autodesk has made remote Arnold rendering vastly more expensive with all sorts of restrictions.

  2. #287
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    Lightwave needs this type of user making vids and giving free promotion to the app.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/masterxeon1001/videos

    Social media, Youtube, community development should be embraced. Adapt or die.

    As someone mentioned in the blender LW thread, NT needs to get young users involved.
    I can only see one way for that to happen and with the notion of blender being out there for the younger ones without resources to invest in more expensive 3D software.

    1. doesnīt matter if they release it open source, Lightwave needs to adress the code to be more modern, and I guess the modeler side may be the culprit.
    2. after the first point is taken care of which is necessary for this, they would need to send out student licenses to a very low cost.
    3 . they need to start to build the reputation that this is the new "blender" or new sh..and they can not do that without fullfilling point 1 in this list.
    4. to adress the point 1, they would further need to package it with a much more modern UI, or at least a lot more vamped in the UI flexibility, way more than the UI tool plugin can deliver, itīs a matter of attraction to the UI design, and at the 3D bar, Lightwave will not fall in to the taste of the younger public, perhaps older ones.

  3. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPSchmidt View Post
    If you had to choose between those options, what would motivate you to upgrade?
    Modifier Stack / ProRender

    Most definitely ProRender!

    I will upgrade anyway to have the latest and greatest LW, except it's only Modeler updates because I cannot imagine it would add anything to my existing toolset.

  4. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Cageman View Post

    And, as I have stated before... GPU rendering for individual artists and small studios is more cost-effective than buying a whole renderfarm.
    That I cannot agree with. Not everybody needs 3000 frames to be rendered. I, for example, need 10 to 15 images for each project. I'm an individual artist, I make a living out of my renders, and GPU Rendering (Octane) has dramatically changed the way I work and my efficiency. There's actually NO CPU renderer that can give me what I need with the speed I (and my clients) need. When I was working with native renderer, some renders could take 1hour or maybe 2. Today, if I wait more than 10min for an image, I'm unhappy and wonder what's wrong with my settings.

    EDIT : I misread and got everything wrong, sorry !
    Last edited by Mastoy; 01-17-2020 at 10:08 AM.

  5. #290
    Super Member Chris S. (Fez)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mastoy View Post
    That I cannot agree with. Not everybody needs 3000 frames to be rendered. I, for example, need 10 to 15 images for each project. I'm an individual artist, I make a living out of my renders, and GPU Rendering (Octane) has dramatically changed the way I work and my efficiency.
    He is essentially saying the same thing. You are agreeing with him. Unless I am misunderstanding.

  6. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris S. (Fez) View Post
    He is essentially saying the same thing. You are agreeing with him. Unless I am misunderstanding.
    Man I really need to rest ! Sorry for that, I misread and now I'm embarrassed Thx for correcting me

  7. #292
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mastoy View Post
    That I cannot agree with. Not everybody needs 3000 frames to be rendered. I, for example, need 10 to 15 images for each project. I'm an individual artist, I make a living out of my renders, and GPU Rendering (Octane) has dramatically changed the way I work and my efficiency. There's actually NO CPU renderer that can give me what I need with the speed I (and my clients) need. When I was working with native renderer, some renders could take 1hour or maybe 2. Today, if I wait more than 10min for an image, I'm unhappy and wonder what's wrong with my settings.

    EDIT : I misread and got everything wrong, sorry !
    Yep, for stills you would want GPU rendering, and a renderfarm would be a waste, in fact..most still shots if not doing animations, can be done the most cost effective way in blender, and with faster speed and in some cases better renders as well.
    In the case of working for studios like Cageman does, can not argue anything against that.

  8. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by hypersuperduper View Post
    Anyone who works at an office with a bunch of people. It’s probably not that uncommon. You just use the existing workstations for rendering at night.
    True for me... have twelve systems running Lightwave in a closed network, so it's not that difficult to set up a small overnight render farm.

  9. #294
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    Not necessarily. If Modeler gets a substantial upgrade it would most likely be a separate development stream. Therefore understandable they fix some current Modeler issues with a last patch. For Modeler I see no path further anyway but hope there are finally modeling tools in Layout.
    Yep, fixing 2019 is support for the 2019 users, while 2020 may require upgrade pricing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris S. (Fez) View Post
    He is essentially saying the same thing. You are agreeing with him. Unless I am misunderstanding.
    Ahh..thought it was a bit confusing, I need to relax as well, I just happened to agree with someone who seemingly didnīt agree with Cageman, but I did agree with cageman, so there you have it..none of it makes no sense, but then again...it all makes sense ah..Iīm gonna hit the sack and watch Avatar again if I can stand watching it again within some hour... and let it take me to sleepy dreams.

  10. #295
    Super Member Chris S. (Fez)'s Avatar
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    I have not watched Avatar in a while and am curious how it has aged. Will have to check it out too. I'd rather tinker with LW 2020

  11. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Yep, for stills you would want GPU rendering, and a renderfarm would be a waste...
    For animation you might want it even more.

    So for me it's the opposite, I don't mind waiting for a still (LW 2019, Vray, Physical, Vue or Terragen for example) but it's really awesome to render out animations with 30-60sec per frame using Redshift and E-Cycles (but I have to admit I've not used the latter for animation yet).

    Volume animation / cloud fly through and micropoly displaced landscapes is easily possible with GPU under a minute / frame and good quality.

    LW 2019 animation with appropriate render settings is now feasible for me too with the new machine.

    Vue or Terragen are still too slow for animation with good quality (and I don't think this will ever change).

    Maybe (I hope) LW 2020 has optimizations for volume and primitive displacement rendering (using height maps). Easier and improved VDB handling and particle system (another part that needs a serious overhaul). For me LightWave should be an affordable effects tool similar to HitFilm but for 3D. That it's CPU only is not my primary concern.

    Renderfarms are great for commercial rendering (also for very high res stills / print) but I don't want to use them for hobby use.

    However if needed to render out the final master piece that option is always there.

  12. #297
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    For animation you might want it even more.

    So for me it's the opposite, I don't mind waiting for a still (LW 2019, Vray, Physical, Vue or Terragen for example) but it's really awesome to render out animations with 30-60sec per frame using Redshift and E-Cycles (but I have to admit I've not used the latter for animation yet).

    Volume animation / cloud fly through and micropoly displaced landscapes is easily possible with GPU under a minute / frame and good quality.

    LW 2019 animation with appropriate render settings is now feasible for me too with the new machine.

    Vue or Terragen are still too slow for animation with good quality (and I don't think this will ever change).

    Maybe (I hope) LW 2020 has optimizations for volume and primitive displacement rendering (using height maps). Easier and improved VDB handling and particle system (another part that needs a serious overhaul). For me LightWave should be an affordable effects tool similar to HitFilm but for 3D. That it's CPU only is not my primary concern.

    Renderfarms are great for commercial rendering (also for very high res stills / print) but I don't want to use them for hobby use.

    However if needed to render out the final master piece that option is always there.

    Sure...good for animations too, but I suppose it may only be valid for cycles perhaps and connected to a renderfarm, one thing to render out smaller animations, VS a level of what Cageman described..(I guess)

    As for vue & Terragen...still too slow, but they have all the complexity merged, setting all that up in Lightwave and you would be even worse out, itīs one thing to render out a cloud animation moving with the new volumetrics, which can be quite fast..but they are also not infinite in layers...and if you were to add global scattering and try to match vue and terragen spectral atmosphere, the rendertimes would most likely be the same ..or worse when you double up volumetric engines like that.

  13. #298
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris S. (Fez) View Post
    I have not watched Avatar in a while and am curious how it has aged. Will have to check it out too. I'd rather tinker with LW 2020
    Avatar just happens to air on a swedish channel tonight, and quite early..and I was up early this morning, so it is all good to watch and become sleepy with, always keeping my eye on the vfx mostly when seeing it many times over of course, as I have mentioned before, some avatar animal motions and designss I didnīt like, and some colorschemes I didnīt like in the illuminous vegetation, didnīt like james horners score at all, but some other stuff in the vegetation, and lighting was breathtaking.

  14. #299

    small projects = GPU
    big projects = CPU

    personally i like the CPU+GPU method ā la Cycles.
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  15. #300

    Avatar was the only movie where I loved the 3D effect overall, not impossible that that is due to some of Rob's work.

    Heard TRON was great in 3D, but never had the chance to see it at the movies.   
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