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Thread: Newtek, please announce LW2020 or provide another fix update for LW2019!

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    Well i have modo perpetual license which also requires activation/refresh every 3-4 months also so nothing weird there.
    Understood Lewis, and sure they have to check their product is being used fairly, but the definition of permanent seems to slip over time. Eg, compare to the old Modo perpetual license up to version 10. Someone that wants to buy a software with a dongle is presumably trying to avoid a cracked version. Sorry if I'm splitting hairs about it.

  2. #242
    Well good side (from my POV) is that Octane licensing seems to be best/working since there is no (AFAIK?) crack (no kids with computers making competition ) for it so i understand them fully but as i said they offer perpetual license now (it's not gonna stop working if you don't upgrade/pay for newer version) but has to be online for activation of license (or with dongle offline for most of time except when renewinh USB dongle key).
    Heck even my bank account logging requires me to plug in TOKEN (USB dongle) every time and also once a year i need to renew certificate on it to continue working .

    Also check other options, very little software nowdays have only perpetual version and majority is moving to some kind of rental only so just fact that OTOY reconsidered this (they moved to rental only with 2018-2019 octane) is major bonus in my eyes. YES i'll pay more but i want to know that i always can open my files even if i don't upgrade to new version (unlike with Adobe, Autodesk...)

    As far as it goes CPU vs GPU that is non debatable, i don't care if i have 999 free CPU licenses if my CPU renders 30 minutes/frame while GPU renders 30 seconds/frame. No brainer there sadly .
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  3. #243
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  4. #244
    Super Member JohnMarchant's Avatar
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    Ianr, Not sure that really mean much.

    Final preparations into the release of LW 2020, could mean another 4 months. I hope not but maybe that's the reason for 2019.1.5.

    Of course then with only 8 months of the year left until another update many might skip it. This was always going to happen when you go to yearly updates, yes more money coming in on a yearly basis, but if i can wait 8 months and still update for the same price then maybe its worth waiting depending on what is on offer.

    Probably better to step updates, if you miss one year of updates then you have to pay say $100 more to update the next time. It would encourage more to update yearly.

    Anyway i hope everything i've said is crap and it comes out before end of January.
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  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post

    As far as it goes CPU vs GPU that is non debatable, i don't care if i have 999 free CPU licenses if my CPU renders 30 minutes/frame while GPU renders 30 seconds/frame. No brainer there sadly .
    fact!

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    There is Perpetual option back (they do listen users ) for Octane licensing.

    There is Rent (since it's not subscription but actual renting like Adobe, Autodesk) and now there is BUY option which is Perpetual+maintenance (1 or 2 years) and now all plugins are included in both options.
    True... but some of the language and the layout of their purchase page still makes it obscure.

    Why is it "Enterprise Box License"?

    Why don't they simply have a "Purchase" button that, when clicked, allows you to select an expanded maintenance plan (if you want it) and your plugin, rather than two separate buttons?

    It's not like they have a cheaper "maintenance free" option. You're getting either 12 months (standard) or 24 months (optional).

    Oh, and the dongle thing... idiotic... I was overjoyed when Lightwave stopped with the damn dongles. I'm still not exactly sure what purpose the dongle has... once I buy the software, isn't it mine? Does it stop working after the standard 12 month maintenance plan is up? Do I have to get the dongle to keep using Octane after my "maintenance" is up?

    If that is true, then again... no thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by tyrot View Post
    removing LW's own rendering engine - replacing with Octane and selling new Lightwave 202+ with Octane licenses included.. and directing all other company sources into other areas..
    No... most definitely not... no.

    You never want any developer to remove features. Add... never remove.

    I'm also quite happy with Lightwave's current price point. When and if they actually incorporate a GPU rendering solution, I will happily extra for that... but not Octane. That seems like it would be an untenable situation, with Octane in a position to nickle and dime Lightwave users.

    Also, there are other GPU render solutions out there that Lightwave could partner with / develop that present a robust solution at a lower price point, helping them keep costs down for users.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMarchant View Post
    Anyway i hope everything i've said is crap and it comes out before end of January.
    I hope so too, but I think perhaps a bit beyond January. I guess it all depends on what they are trying to deliver.

    One other thing I think we as users lose sight of is we don't really know what long-term items they have been working on. Things that have had steady work put into them, but that work has been over an extremely long period so that they could deliver new features faster.

    UI updates would be something that I think would fall into that category. It's something you are working on steadily, but the goalpost isn't necessarily set because you have other development priorities.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by RPSchmidt View Post
    True... but some of the language and the layout of their purchase page still makes it obscure.

    Why is it "Enterprise Box License"?

    Why don't they simply have a "Purchase" button that, when clicked, allows you to select an expanded maintenance plan (if you want it) and your plugin, rather than two separate buttons?

    It's not like they have a cheaper "maintenance free" option. You're getting either 12 months (standard) or 24 months (optional).

    Oh, and the dongle thing... idiotic... I was overjoyed when Lightwave stopped with the damn dongles. I'm still not exactly sure what purpose the dongle has... once I buy the software, isn't it mine? Does it stop working after the standard 12 month maintenance plan is up? Do I have to get the dongle to keep using Octane after my "maintenance" is up?

    If that is true, then again... no thank you.
    Well sorry to inform you but you got most of it wrongly

    1. Dongle is for those who do not want online activation so dongle is Offline mode license, you know for those "paranoid" ones who don't have workstation connected to internet .
    2. They have purchase-perpetual option , it's called BUY - http://prntscr.com/qolv4b
    3. Maintenance is for those who already have license (perpetual or rent) so you extend your maintenance for another year or two. In case of perpetual mode you then keep the version release sin your maintenance period (just like modo, Redshift , substance (before Adobe bought it now it's gonna change to subscription only from next year)
    4. you don't need dongle to keep your perpetual version, if is perpetual then it's perpetual, Dongle as i said in octane case is just different type of activation/license for those who don't have internet connection.

    BUT all of that can be found/looked at OTOY forum/web site so if you want to know more better to ask there than here since this is not Octane forum .
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  8. #248
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    Upgraded. Unfortunately my layer bug is still there in 2019.5. I reported it and it wasn’t listed as fixed, but I figured perhaps it was related to the layer bugs that were fixed. apparently not. My bug is like this and it basically renders layer heirachies in modeler unusable: If you have an object with layers that are parented in the layers panel and open that object in layout without sending it from modeler (from the file browser for example) everything looks fineBUT the if you open that item in modeler with f12 or the modeler button and go back to layout the layer heirachy is erased AND THE PARENTING IN LAYOUT IS ALSO ERASED. It literally reparents your objects to the scene root. This does not happen if you send the item to layout from modeler but it is such a pain that I avoid layer heirarchies alltogether.

    So if anyone else is also having this issue and is hoping that this update fixes it, it doesn’t. Boo.

  9. #249
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    Thanks, Lewis, for sort of consolidating the info.
    Just my 2cents in regards to # 2. Well, 699,00 € is not exactly a bargain. (And that is what OTOY seems to call a "discount"... And also you can choose only ONE plugin with the Enterprise Box at purchase)
    Even more so if OTOY "generously" offers me for a mere 499,00 € to upgrade my existing V4 up to V2020 maintenance. And this would be only for my Workstation.
    This plus the rather obscure licensing have helped my decision to not invest into OTOY anymore for now.
    I will hold still and will wait what lightwave2020 will have to over and then we will see where the path leads...
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  10. #250
    Hi Fishhead, well not exactly correct, you get all plugins with enterprise license+maintenance (i have them for all my 3 enteprise licenses/machines) but for more info we should go to otoy forum not here as I mentioned earlier. Yearly maintenance for my perpetual license is 199EUR (2 years have discount so it's 349). Not that bad but yes not cheap as LW or if you skipped version (LW also "punishes" those who skip verison nowdays ), but neither app (except Blender ofc) is cheap now-days. Look how much modo cost today (lot more than LW) or Cinema4d (like 2990 + TAX) and those two are last ones which have "proper" perpetual licensing mode available (+ Houdini but for 4495$ or 2500$ for yearly upgrade).

    As for LW2020, yeah let's hope it's some great update but let's be realistic about GPU renderer in LW - that would take years and years and they made us Free 2019.1 Feature update like 8 months ago .

    We got 2019, 2019.0.1, 2019.0.2, 2019.0.3, 2019.1.0, 2019.1.1, 2019.1.2, 2019.1.3, 2019.1.4 and now 2019.1.5, so there was 8 Patches/ Bug fixes and two Feature releases all in 2019.x series. That is very good track record and you will rarely see that form other vendors now-days.
    Last edited by Lewis; 01-16-2020 at 09:08 AM.
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  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    Well sorry to inform you but you got most of it wrongly

    1. Dongle is for those who do not want online activation so dongle is Offline mode license, you know for those "paranoid" ones who don't have workstation connected to internet .
    But you still have to update the dongle online... so not really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    2. They have purchase-perpetual option , it's called BUY - http://prntscr.com/qolv4b
    This is what you see when you hit "BUY".

    In order to learn what those options mean, you have to continue reading down the page, or, in other cases, do some research on the forums.

    It's their choice how they lay this page out, but they could simplify it significantly and make the purchase process more transparent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    3. Maintenance is for those who already have license (perpetual or rent) so you extend your maintenance for another year or two. In case of perpetual mode you then keep the version release sin your maintenance period (just like modo, Redshift , substance (before Adobe bought it now it's gonna change to subscription only from next year)
    Good to know... I just wish they would put that information right below the PURCHASE button.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    4. you don't need dongle to keep your perpetual version, if is perpetual then it's perpetual, Dongle as i said in octane case is just different type of activation/license for those who don't have internet connection.
    Also good to know... but not completely transparent at the time of purchase. Also, again, you still have to regularly update your dongle for your disconnected version of Octane to continue working... which sort of amounts to the same thing.

    Someone paranoid enough to not want their computer connected to the internet would probably be paranoid about connecting a peripheral they have zero control over to their system and that also requires updates every four months from an internet-connected machine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    BUT all of that can be found/looked at OTOY forum/web site so if you want to know more better to ask there than here since this is not Octane forum .
    People were discussing Octane as part of this thread so I discussed Octane.

    Honestly, though, I shouldn't really have to search for answers about what should be a transparent purchase process.... and that was kind of my whole point.

  12. #252
    Super Member JohnMarchant's Avatar
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    Just looking at the last few threads pretty much shows that the purchase/licensing system at OTOY needs sorting out. Maybe its the way its worded or the page layout, does not matter its confusing and convoluted.

    I think the noise filter on the render panel might provide clues as the what is happening with the render engine and as far as GPU rendering use, it could be good news. Whilst it will take some time to implement fully at least in that part we have the choice of CPU or GPU.

    For now we have two external Renderer's, Kray CPU and Octane GPU, and that's some good choices. I really hope that NT can get back and address long standing problems in LW, like the hub still not working reliably even in 2019.1.5 and the woeful state of modeler.
    Last edited by JohnMarchant; 01-16-2020 at 09:25 AM.
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  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    Well good side (from my POV) is that Octane licensing seems to be best/working since there is no (AFAIK?) crack (no kids with computers making competition ) for it so i understand them fully but as i said they offer perpetual license now (it's not gonna stop working if you don't upgrade/pay for newer version) but has to be online for activation of license (or with dongle offline for most of time except when renewinh USB dongle key).
    Heck even my bank account logging requires me to plug in TOKEN (USB dongle) every time and also once a year i need to renew certificate on it to continue working .

    Also check other options, very little software nowdays have only perpetual version and majority is moving to some kind of rental only so just fact that OTOY reconsidered this (they moved to rental only with 2018-2019 octane) is major bonus in my eyes. YES i'll pay more but i want to know that i always can open my files even if i don't upgrade to new version (unlike with Adobe, Autodesk...)

    As far as it goes CPU vs GPU that is non debatable, i don't care if i have 999 free CPU licenses if my CPU renders 30 minutes/frame while GPU renders 30 seconds/frame. No brainer there sadly .
    I guess the "Rent" option would be the most economical option for those of us who don't want to purchase it at the higher price especially starting out with it. If I have anymore more questions I will take them to the OTOY forum. I see this thread has quickly turned into a discussion about Octane now.
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  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    Hi Fishhead, well not exactly correct, you get all plugins with enterprise license+maintenance (i have them for all my 3 enteprise licenses/machines) but for more info we should go to otoy forum not here as I mentioned earlier. Yearly maintenance for my perpetual license is 199EUR ...
    Okay, apparantly you are correct there. But I only got that after I had to recheck they shop page as it clearly says Perpetual Enterprise Box License Comes with ONE DCC plugin
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    What is a Box license anyway? The FAQ do not even mention the word perpetual anywhere. At least I wasn´t able to find it on the webpage..
    Does that mean if I am a new customer I'll have to pay 699 to get in at all (thus be able to choose one plugin - Juanjo´s for LW in that case - and be done with it?!?) And if I want ANY sort of support have to purchase a maintanece on top (which gives me ALL plugins)??
    You will have to admit that is more than a bit confusing...

    edit: okay, Nicolas you are right, will stop here... LW it is! :-)
    Last edited by fishhead; 01-16-2020 at 09:50 AM.
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  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMarchant View Post
    For now we have two external Renderer's, Kray CPU and Octane GPU, and that's some good choices. I really hope that NT can get back and address long standing problems in LW, like the hub still not working reliably even in 2019.1.5 and the woeful state of modeler.
    Certainly, they are both good options to the LW native renderer.

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