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Thread: Newtek, please announce LW2020 or provide another fix update for LW2019!

  1. #121
    Super Member JohnMarchant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBeckwith View Post
    If there is a Lightwave 2020 do you think it will be announced by the end of February this year if it were to come out?
    We will get it when we get it. 2018 Early Jan 2018, 2019 Late Jan 2019, so who's to say. Technically it could be the 31st December and still be 2020.
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  2. #122
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    If there is a Lightave 2020 version comming out this year, do you think we will probably know by the end of February?

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    i don’t see any issue with releasing and disruption considering ODtools are now dead.
    I wouldn't consider them dead just because there will no longer be new tools or features added. As long as they are still working and usable with the latest versions of Lightwave and especially if they are being maintained by the developer to continue working then they are definitely not dead in my opinion.
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  5. #125
    Super Member JohnMarchant's Avatar
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    To be honest gar26lw, i would not listen to Richard Culver or Steve White as to the way ahead or status of LW. Whilst both fine people, they have left LW and are quite happy with Blender, good for them, but you will get a pretty unbalanced view of what is happening and certainly not from any perspective of knowledge.

    I had long conversations with Richard Culver and for whatever reason he believes NT and LWG3D have lied to him and us, now i don't know the circumstances of what in his case happened but he certainly has a downer on with NT.

    Now i am not saying he is wrong or that anything he has said wont happen, its just that he has a very biased opinion when it comes to LW, he cites people leaving and very little development, whilst there might not be development in areas we would want, eg, modeler its hardly like there is no development at all.

    Yes the LW team has slimmed down somewhat and there have been no new hiring for some time, however vizRT have appointed two people to the top of LW and who is to know what will happen in the future.

    Thing is this industry and the software used moves on apace and the longer LW lags behind the harder and longer it is to catch up.

    Oh and its not all sweets and light in Blender either, VDB only came in in 2.8.2, which is still in beta and the UV tools are still not good. Of course its very hard to compete against free.
    Last edited by JohnMarchant; 01-12-2020 at 05:17 AM.
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  6. #126
    www.Digitawn.co.uk rustythe1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMarchant View Post
    To be honest gar26lw, i would not listen to Richard Culver or Steve White as to the way ahead or status of LW. Whilst both fine people, they have left LW and are quite happy with Blender, good for them, but you will get a pretty unbalanced view of what is happening and certainly not from any perspective of knowledge.

    I had long conversations with Richard Culver and for whatever reason he believes NT and LWG3D have lied to him and us, now i don't know the circumstances of what in his case happened but he certainly has a downer on with NT.

    Now i am not saying he is wrong or that anything he has said wont happen, its just that he has a very biased opinion when it comes to LW, he cites people leaving and very little development, whilst there might not be development in areas we would want, eg, modeler its hardly like there is no development at all.

    Yes the LW team has slimmed down somewhat and there have been no new hiring for some time, however vizRT have appointed two people to the top of LW and who is to know what will happen in the future.

    Thing is this industry and the software used moves on apace and the longer LW lags behind the harder and longer it is to catch up.

    Oh and its not all sweets and light in Blender either, VDB only came in in 2.8.2, which is still in beta and the UV tools are still not good. Of course its very hard to compete against free.
    Add to that we don't even know the internal workings, how do they know positions were not filled or any idea of the size of the team? take a look at the office on google street view, its not exactly a small empty place, we don't know what they have developed in the meantime, and the comments about either companies not needing lightwave. well actually its a big opportunity for vizrt to replace C4d for content creation, especially as it already has the unreal link, being as Viz engine is based on unreal AFAIK.
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  7. #127
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    Aside from the bugginess. I think lw2019 was quite a step up from 2018 and a pretty good piece of software. This convinced me that there was still gas in the tank, and that things were moving forward despite the 2018 shakeup and lack of any real front figure. (Chuck Baker seemed pretty upfront that his was more of a caretaker role). I have no reason yet to doubt that this is still the case as lw2019 is just about a year old and to my knowledge development circumstances haven’t really changed. This thread has gone from “we need a new version or an update ASAP” to “the sky is falling!” In mere days.

    I AM concerned that there don’t appear to be a whole lot of new plugin devs replacing the ones that are moving on, but I think it would be a good idea to wait to see what newtek releases (or doesn’t) in the coming weeks before freaking out or reading tea leaves.

  8. #128
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    Plugin developers will come as the user base will grow, or would.

    To me the most mandatory thing is to grow the user base. How? Maybe making LW attractive to new and existing users.
    English is not my native language so please be patient.

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  9. #129
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  10. #130
    Super Member JohnMarchant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustythe1 View Post
    Add to that we don't even know the internal workings, how do they know positions were not filled or any idea of the size of the team? take a look at the office on google street view, its not exactly a small empty place, we don't know what they have developed in the meantime, and the comments about either companies not needing lightwave. well actually its a big opportunity for vizrt to replace C4d for content creation, especially as it already has the unreal link, being as Viz engine is based on unreal AFAIK.
    Agreed mate, but as journalists always say tell us the news or we will make it up and force you too.
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  11. #131
    Former users are allowed to think whatever they want but that does not necessarily reflect reality. For all we know VizRT may decide to invest in Lightwave to make it more competitive again. No one really knows the future of any software.
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  12. #132
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    Yeah..uhmm, Ivé noticed that there has been over the later years...a lot of companies adapting the name Lightwave, from microovens, and other stuff like this, so when searching for Lightwave only, some of that is first presented on youtube, not lightwave 3d, which you have to add in the string when searching.

  13. #133
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMarchant View Post
    Oh and its not all sweets and light in Blender either, VDB only came in in 2.8.2, which is still in beta and the UV tools are still not good. Of course its very hard to compete against free.
    The thing is, blender seem to have a much faster pace at implementing things in general, than Lightwave, yes..Lightwave managed to implement vdb and not only import export of volumetrics, but so much more..but that wasn´t that long ago either..and you know what, due to the fact that blender have the fluid tools natively, both volumetric smoke and liquids ..it can perform tasks you do not get near with Lightwave native today, the vdb smoke gas solver can not beat the blender fire and smoke for such tasks..at least it will take you a lot longer time to simulate, tweak etc, and until they improve on the opengl and the speed and the wrapped UI around the gas solver, your best bet would be to invest also in TFD, so that is both the cost of Lightwave And TFD VS a free blender with build in fluids.

    If I could plan the game, I would like newtek/lightwave group to focus more on the whole dynamics engine with fluids, and not have TFD as an excuse or backup, that way they could ensure they build on forces, particles that work with the fluids flawlessly as blenders does, and they will be able to deliver a product capable of matching blenders fluid natively for that cost of the software, it will still be much more expensive than blender, but if they manage that, they will overcome the demand of another costly plugin and also having the fluids being updated accordingly to what else in the core of lightwave.

    I do hope TFD get´s an update soon, but I honestly do not think it will survive within LIghtwave for long, not as being succesful anyway....I hope I am wrong, but it would require Jascha to get going on what is lacking...or at least for me, blender will probably work fine, I just can´t motivate myself to invest in it when it lacks PBR shading (unless vdb converting) and some other stuff such as weight emission, openGL fire and smoke at once, and not working with the other bullet forces.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMarchant View Post
    Oh and its not all sweets and light in Blender either, VDB only came in in 2.8.2, which is still in beta and the UV tools are still not good. Of course its very hard to compete against free.
    The thing is, blender seem to have a much faster pace at implementing things in general, than Lightwave, yes..Lightwave managed to implement vdb and not only import export of volumetrics, but so much more..but that wasn´t that long ago either..and you know what, due to the fact that blender have the fluid tools natively, both volumetric smoke and liquids ..it can perform tasks you do not get near with Lightwave native today, the vdb smoke gas solver can not beat the blender fire and smoke for such tasks..at least it will take you a lot longer time to simulate, tweak etc, and until they improve on the opengl and the speed and the wrapped UI around the gas solver, your best bet would be to invest also in TFD, so that is both the cost of Lightwave And TFD VS a free blender with build in fluids.

    If I could plan the game, I would like newtek/lightwave group to focus more on the whole dynamics engine with fluids, and not have TFD as an excuse or backup, that way they could ensure they build on forces, particles that work with the fluids flawlessly as blenders does, and they will be able to deliver a product capable of matching blenders fluid natively for that cost of the software, it will still be much more expensive than blender, but if they manage that, they will overcome the demand of another costly plugin and also having the fluids being updated accordingly to what else in the core of lightwave.

    I do hope TFD get´s an update soon, but I honestly do not think it will survive within LIghtwave for long, not as being succesful anyway....I hope I am wrong, but it would require Jascha to get going on what is lacking...or at least for me, blender will probably work fine, I just can´t motivate myself to invest in it when it lacks PBR shading (unless vdb converting) and some other stuff such as weight emission, openGL fire and smoke at once, and not working with the other bullet forces, and partcle advection...I get all that working For Free in blender fire and smoke, and with cycles..much faster rendering for multiple scattering..wich is very slow in the main shading of TFD with recalculation each tweak, and if converted to vdb, it would be slower than normal volumetrics as well, only option as I see it is to invest in also octane, that would be Lightwave, tfd, and octane..VS a free blender that manage all that decently.

    That said, I do not know how well the performance is at very high simulated fluids between tfd and blender, I suspect tfd handles is better and able to crush more of the higher resolution sims, but I need to compare it thouroughly.

  14. #134
    Super Member JohnMarchant's Avatar
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    Well Jasha has said he is still working on TFD 2 and still for LW, we will see what happens there.

    Blender of course has a faster pace, bigger team of coders and not just in house, and now a lot more money to invest. LW and dare i say it C4D, Modo and the likes will find it hard to compete on that front. However as you point out its not just about features, its the implementation of them and how well they work with other parts of the program.

    Blender is free of course so whats not to like. There is a thriving free and paid plugin community as well.

    Of course there are other 3d programs that have fluids and TFD type stuff built in but still have 3rd party apps being developed for them, as i said its not just what it is but how well its implemented and how well it works with everything else.

    The problem i hear for many of the big FX houses with Blender is integrating into their pipeline. They have a lot of time, training and money invested in what they have, the also have an army of coders creating things to cover shortfalls

    Most of these big houses don't really care about the cost so much as the customer is always paying for it anyway. Its the one man bands or small indie studios that will drive Blender forward and ive no doubt this will trickle up to the big houses eventually.
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  15. #135
    Super Member Chris S. (Fez)'s Avatar
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    Eh. I see the same bitter, biased ex-users endeavoring to undermine consumer confidence... on the verge of a new release no less.

    Nobody knows what VizRT has planned. Posting toxic speculation as hard truth is not only unprofessional...it is unkind and unnecessary.

    LW Group is a small team working for a small company. VizRT is still funding fulltime development. The next release of LW under new ownership is on its way. At least reserve judgement and vicious conjecture until then.

    Those guys won't be satisfied until LW is retired and the LW Group is laid off.

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