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Thread: Newtek, please announce LW2020 or provide another fix update for LW2019!

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    small projects = GPU
    big projects = CPU

    personally i like the CPU+GPU method ā la Cycles.
    Yes agree, CPU still rules in big budget productions (as far as I know). Arnold, Vray, Mantra, Clarisse and Renderman mainly.

    Yep, the Cycles hybrid approach is sweet. Arnold now too afaik but licencing wise no thanks AD...

  2. #302

    Arnold = Neat, and only $10000 a year for 25 Render Packs. (cough!)  
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  3. #303
    Almost newbie Cageman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    Yes agree, CPU still rules in big budget productions (as far as I know). Arnold, Vray, Mantra, Clarisse and Renderman mainly.

    Yep, the Cycles hybrid approach is sweet. Arnold now too afaik but licencing wise no thanks AD...
    Yeah... I mean... Weta has built a renderfarm with over 40k CPUs. And they actually won an energy excellence award.

    https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/...-behind-avatar

    EDIT: Just re-read it... it is actually 32 machines with 40.000 processors each... so... 1.280.000 CPUs. Jesus christ... that is ALOT! And I was happy with the potential of 400-600 CPUs... LOL.
    Last edited by Cageman; 01-17-2020 at 01:01 PM.
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  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cageman View Post
    ... it is actually 32 machines with 40.000 processors each... so... 1.280.000 CPUs. Jesus christ... that is ALOT! And I was happy with the potential of 400-600 CPUs... LOL.
    Holy... Thanks for the read!

    Nevertheless 400-600 CPUs is also great to have available inhouse

  5. #305
    Almost newbie Cageman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    Holy... Thanks for the read!

    Nevertheless 400-600 CPUs is also great to have available inhouse
    Could be the writer mixing things up a bit.... "Thirty four racks comprise the computing core, made of 32 machines each with 40,000 processors and 104 terabytes of memory." That sounds like those 1.280.000 CPUs, right... the wording suggest that.

    However, in the closing segment, the writer then write "For the last month or more of production those 40,000 processors were handling 7 or 8 gigabytes of data per second, running 24 hours a day."

    So... I guess the truth here is that Weta has 40.000 CPUs and not 1.280.000 CPUs. However, I suspect the writer might have mixed up CPU threads with the number of actual CPUs.

    Oh well... it doesn't matter... it is an impressive renderfarm/datacenter for sure.
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  6. #306
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cageman View Post
    Could be the writer mixing things up a bit.... "Thirty four racks comprise the computing core, made of 32 machines each with 40,000 processors and 104 terabytes of memory." That sounds like those 1.280.000 CPUs, right... the wording suggest that.
    I'm guessing ~40ki threads/vcores total, the other combinations don't fit with the current limits of crossbar interconnect technology. Even 32 machines at 32 nodes (==CPUs) per machine is pushing outer limits*, and averaging 20 cores/40 threads per CPU (reasonable for server CPUs -- keep in mind 32core/64 thread CPUs _just_ came out) would yield 40960 threads (~40ki threads).

    That'd also work out to around 104GB of RAM per node (figure a mix of 64GB - 128GB nodes to bring average to 104GB) which is a reasonable amount per node -- with 104TB total, if you don't have around 1024 nodes, the node memory numbers get unreasonable (too small or too big) for "last couple years'" DIMM densities.

    Someone else is welcome to figure out the actual linear algebra.

    Mine's a guesstimate based on current tech "reasonable choices", without making it the "largest supercomputer on earth" or such (which, if it were, would have been noted much more prominently).

    *: AMD Horus extends Opteron NUMA to 32 CPU per "machine" (refs - link1 link2). Off-hand, there's no reason the same trick Horus is doing wouldn't work with QPI/UPI, but only finding 8CPU/"machine" refs for Intel in quick search (might be subtle constraint or patent in the way on Intel).
    Last edited by jwiede; 01-17-2020 at 07:06 PM.
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  7. #307
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    small projects = GPU
    big projects = CPU

    personally i like the CPU+GPU method ā la Cycles.
    The good thing about that, I canīt stand tweaking fire and smoke with the CPU in blender, thus going for the GPU...which if course is faster, now there comes a limit when using very small step length in the volumetrics..where the GPU fails, but Ivé learnt the ratio to how much I can push it, so I can still tweak the shader as I want it and see the feedback fast, while if I need to ensure I can render out high resolution sims and many frames..I could leave it running during the night rendering on the CPU to be fullproof.
    That isnīt an option I have with Lighwave CPU Only and vdb and fiberfx, which on the other hand presents a full proof render without failing, but too slow feedback to the degree that I can not be creative at the level I need.

  8. #308
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cageman View Post
    Could be the writer mixing things up a bit.... "Thirty four racks comprise the computing core, made of 32 machines each with 40,000 processors and 104 terabytes of memory." That sounds like those 1.280.000 CPUs, right... the wording suggest that.

    However, in the closing segment, the writer then write "For the last month or more of production those 40,000 processors were handling 7 or 8 gigabytes of data per second, running 24 hours a day."

    So... I guess the truth here is that Weta has 40.000 CPUs and not 1.280.000 CPUs. However, I suspect the writer might have mixed up CPU threads with the number of actual CPUs.

    Oh well... it doesn't matter... it is an impressive renderfarm/datacenter for sure.
    Thanks for the link, and darnit, I was about to plan the next homemade king kong, this time with a size of a 1000 meter tall Gorilla, and render it all out in full hollywood quality, I almost thought a single person and a single computer could do that I think I would need to release it in full wireframe render only.

  9. #309
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    Avatar was the only movie where I loved the 3D effect overall, not impossible that that is due to some of Rob's work.

    Heard TRON was great in 3D, but never had the chance to see it at the movies.   
    I had some hickups on the 3D visuals, I recall seeing the very first still images from it before actually seeing the movie, think it was some images of Jake Sully in front of a huge mining machine sort of, and I thought it looked all to painted artificial, and that is of course due to the nature of blending a real photage of him with all the light aspects and colors, in relation to the 3D generated image and itīs lighting and color settings, I wonder if they adapted PBR shading methods for that at that time?

    Same with some visuals when made in vue for final renderings, alway has a certain look to it in grading or when using fog or haze that I do not like, hard to say if it is the artists over using a feauture or adapting to some color gradings that doesnīt look good.

    Not sure if Rob Powers was partly responsible for some of the animals like this one in the image, didnīt like the lighting shading, and not the design of them..and particulary not the animated motion which I felt looked awful, same with the horses.
    What I liked was the flying creatures though, both motion, design, and shading and lighting on them..so a Huge contrast between some creature creation.

    As for the avatar themself, I had a little hard time with that concept on how they looked, especially form, the texuring..ok, but could probably be better...extremly nicely lit though.

    Not so good Avatar creature (my opinion)..., I would take most creatures from jurassic park 1 ..or the dragons from reign of fire any day in the week before this creature design and render in Avatar.

  10. #310

    ...and I thought it looked all to painted artificial
    oh yes, the CG3D wasn't great, it often looked unrealistic, Beautiful, but unrealistic.   was referring to the Cinema3D.

    What I liked was the flying creatures though, both motion, design, and shading and lighting on them..so a Huge contrast between some creature creation.
    Agree, they were quite cool.

    I also agree that some of the creature design could have been made by a 10 year old, but I think that was the "romantic" vision Cameron was going for.

    Cameron is getting soft, just like Lucas.
    Last edited by erikals; 01-18-2020 at 07:12 AM.
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  11. #311
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    reminds me, need to watch 80's films..

  12. #312
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post

    oh yes, the CG3D wasn't great, it often looked unrealistic, Beautiful, but unrealistic.   was referring to the Cinema3D.


    Agree, they were quite cool.

    I also agree that some of the creature design could have been made by a 10 year old, but I think that was the "romantic" vision Cameron was going for.

    Cameron is getting soft, just like Lucas.
    Quite a fair reflection I would say.

  13. #313
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    reminds me, need to watch 80's films..
    E.T ?
    Well..Aliens and Blade runner..my top picks in the scifi genre, where Aliens is James Camerons best contribution to movie history..in my point of view.

  14. #314
    Registered User gdkeast's Avatar
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    LW 2019.1.5 is out now, so I guess 2020 will be a little later?

  15. #315
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdkeast View Post
    LW 2019.1.5 is out now, so I guess 2020 will be a little later?
    Probably before 2021.

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