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Thread: TAFA 2 - not yet...

  1. #31
    Registered User ianr's Avatar
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    JALI___Anybody know the pricing?

    I understand its MAYA & Unreal

  2. #32

    [JALI Lip-Sync]

    After researching a bit I found that it is not released yet but not too far away from a launch.

    They seem to avoid the word "affordable" when it comes to the price, this could indicate that it would be somewhat expensive.

    http://jaliresearch.com
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  3. #33
    Super Member Qexit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianr View Post
    JALI___Anybody know the pricing?

    I understand its MAYA & Unreal
    From the JaliResearch website:

    'Pricing and Licensing

    We’ve worked with a number of different customers from mobile technologies, animated and VFX studios, independent and AAA game studios. If we’ve learned one thing, it’s that one size does not fit all.

    Downloadable plug n’ play solutions fall short of expectations because they fail to recognize this about their customers.

    Whether you are looking to animate hours of run time character dialogue in multiple languages, humanize an interactive consumer avatar or streamline your character animation workflow in an animated series, we can help you select the license option and solutions to achieve your unique creative and technical goals.'

    There's a button under this text that allows you to request a quote. So it looks like they vary the price according to the customer. As a hobbyist, you should be able to get a reasonable price Ian.
    Kevin F Stubbs

    Remember...one size does NOT fit all

  4. #34
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    They seem to avoid the word "affordable" when it comes to the price, this could indicate that it would be somewhat expensive.
    o/~ She saw him standing in the section marked: "If you have to ask, you can't afford the lingerie." o/~

    Places that don't list an upfront price are rarely any reasonable definition of "affordable" in pricing.
    Last edited by jwiede; 12-30-2019 at 03:08 PM.
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2019.1.4 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),64GB RAM, NV 980ti

  5. #35

    request a quote
    yepzy, usually means $$$
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  6. #36
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    A thousand dollars for just one blow morph ? Not worth it. Okay I'm going, mod delete...
    Last edited by TheLexx; 12-31-2019 at 08:01 AM.

  7. #37

    NEON


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  8. #38

    https://www.neon.life

    13 hours to go...


    Last edited by erikals; 01-06-2020 at 12:13 PM.
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  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayek View Post
    Well, duh: he didn't declare a viewport meta, so mobile browsers on small screens render it full size. That's really basic.
    It shows he has been out of the loop of web dev for a long, LONG time.
    To be honest, I was never "in the loop" of web dev Just not of interest to me at all... Even when my page wasn't pure text, it was hopelessly dated -- brushed metal backdrop about 5 years after that was "cool". Ah well.

    And I agree with the concerns of viability for TAFA 2. Granted, Real Life (TM) has been kicking me around a bit since the late 2000s, but I also have been trying to figure out "what makes TAFA unique?" I know that, at a high level, it stands out because it lets you get from zero to production in a very short time period (I had one customer who purchased it on a Saturday morning because they had a video due Monday morning that they weren't going to get finished in time. They bought it, installed it, learned it, and completed their video on time. Very few tools hit the ground running that fast.) But, as a developer, looking at all the deep fakes and Neons and other advanced systems coming online, what can I bring to the table now, 15 years later?

    I _think_ (and, of course, I'd love to hear what users think or feel) that the major benefits of TAFA are basically two things:
    1. Real time performance -- scrubbing, looping, and real-time animation editing with sound to polish details as much as you need. This seems useful for any animation or production tool.
    2. A spline system that (mostly) just "does what you mean." This, more than anything, seems to be what makes keyframe animation in TAFA so smooth. 80-90% of the time, splines don't need to be tweaked at all.

    I did some experimentation wtih puppetry for a friend. Basically let you map any axis of any DirectX controller to any morph or morph pair, and map any controller button to morph keyframe insertions (so you can tap a blink in at a particular frame, and the spline system would smooth it just like any other dropped in keyframe). It worked pretty well, but I never got it polished up. But that might be a direction to consider...

    I have wondered about auto-lip-sync. The argument for TAFA was always "if you can get good quality in TAFA in 10 minutes, what's the benefit of getting bad quality in 10 seconds?" But I have to wonder, now: If I could extract phonemes from the audio, apply some of Timothy's/Emily's heuristics for discarding the phonemes that lead to stutter-face, and then let the splining system do it's normal job, could I have the best of both worlds?

    Oh, geez... Why do I start thinking down these lines again? WTH, other things I considered:
    * skeleton animation - thinking puppetry, mostly, mapping controller axes to joints. Multiple configurations, so that you could have a body map to rough in gesticulations, then a hand map to tweak out pointing and such.
    * cross platform - TAFA is hopelessly tied to Windows(TM). It's written using low-level Win32 SDK and Windows Multimedia calls. That did allow me enough control to get the audio sync I needed in the real-time performance (which is non-trivial), but it also means that, as Microsoft seems determined to kill Windows, I'm at somewhat of a dead end. I don't actually use Windows for anything myself any more, so a cross platform solution is definitely needed. Would also like to not have to deal with file formats at the byte level myself any more Current thoughts are Unity or possibly Godot. Hopefully, they should provide tight latency audio control...
    * face tracking - lots of sample code suggests I could get something running. Don't know if direct mapping is the best solution (see other's comments about "we're not exactly Sir Olivier"), or if something like the puppetry mappings would be better. Hmmm... I like that. Each character could have their own weighting for scaling from your performance into their personality. Then you act within your normal range, and let the system stretch or dampen the responses in the character.
    * multi-tool - I know these are the NewTek forums, and I certainly want to support LightWave, but I have never wanted to be tied _into_ LW exclusively. Whatever engine I look at would need to support a decent range of object, scene, and animation formats. My understanding is that FBX seems well supported across tools now, which is a situation that simply didn't exist back in 2005. But I freely admit I haven't been tracking 3D tools all that closely.
    * randomness/tics - something I wanted to try in TAFA but didn't get in place is a "random" system to add small fluctuations and tics to morph tracks. I've seen what this can do, and done well it makes an amazing difference to feeling "alive" (because we're soup technology, so we're never totally still or as precise as a robot)

    I dunno. Lots of stuff that sounds fun. Just, realistically, I can't promise anything at all. It's a good week when I get the free time and mental energy together at the same time to spend a couple of hours doing something interesting. And that just won't cut it for this kind of development. TAFA was three years of 16 hour days, real work and TAFA, and I realistically can't see it happening again. Maybe I'm wrong -- maybe Unity makes things so blissfully easy that I could actually make progress in those little windows of time. That would be great. But I've been wishing that for 10 years now, and we see how far I've gotten, so...

    On the other hand, coming back to these forums and seeing some of the things people have said about TAFA has given me a warm feeling I haven't had in a long time, so I do want to say THANK YOU (which, hopefully, I've said better in my "set it free" thread )
    Last edited by MacReiter; 01-08-2020 at 10:37 AM.

  10. #40
    Eat your peas. Greenlaw's Avatar
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    Hey Mac!

    Great to see you here and thank you very much for sharing your thoughts about the future of TAFA 2 (or whatever it becomes.)

    Yeah, I completely understand how life tends to get in the way of personal work. Lately I've been putting a lot of effort into just being able to work on my personal projects. And once I get the time, I'm often too pooped to do anything with it.

    Wishing you great luck on your project, and I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

  11. #41

    * face tracking - lots of sample code suggests I could get something running. Don't know if direct mapping is the best solution (see other's comments about "we're not exactly Sir Olivier"), or if something like the puppetry mappings would be better. Hmmm... I like that. Each character could have their own weighting for scaling from your performance into their personality. Then you act within your normal range, and let the system stretch or dampen the responses in the character.
    this is the future, i believe.
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  12. #42

    1. NEON did unfortunately not deliver what we had hoped. The marketing was quite hyped.
    The marketing videos showed actual people talking, not fair, almost snake oil.  
    https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...y=Neon+Samsung

    2. TAFA is fantastic, open source seems too gracious, on the other hand the code is tricky to break down from what i understand?
    so maybe one would have to go another route ?
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  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    1. NEON did unfortunately not deliver what we had hoped. The marketing was quite hyped.
    The marketing videos showed actual people talking, not fair, almost snake oil.  
    https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...y=Neon+Samsung
    I had wondered. I've used http://thispersondoesnotexist.com, and some of its results are impressive for stills, but even there you start to see the games it's playing. Going full body, full expression seemed a tremendous leap, and I couldn't see any telltales in the videos I was seeing. Well, except that the people's clothes and stance are slightly weird, but nothing in the face.

    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    2. TAFA is fantastic, open source seems too gracious, on the other hand the code is tricky to break down from what i understand?
    so maybe one would have to go another route ?
    Dunno how tricky it is. It's just in a state of flux, as I was trying to get to v1.5... Gotta find it, first, though. Made lots of backups and scattered them around, but if I was too clever for myself in password protecting those backups, I may be out of luck :facepalm:

  14. #44

    if you guys haven't already, download this archive >
    TAFA Tips Tricks
    https://tinyurl.com/T-TT-download
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  15. #45

    just to add, interesting to see the IrishMan still using morphs, not bones. [7:50 into video]





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