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Thread: Exporting hypervoxels as geometry

  1. #1
    Registered User ChrisBasken's Avatar
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    Exporting hypervoxels as geometry

    Hi,

    Does anyone know if it's possible to freeze and export hypertextured voxels out of Layout for use in Modeler? I'm thinking about 3D printing. If I had, say, a candle and used HVs to make the melted wax running down the outside.

  2. #2
    I don't know the direct answer to your question but,

    If you are creating your hypervoxels from a particle emitter that is "dripping", perhaps you could use that emitter for OpenVDB. I believe there is a way for a particle emitter to create geometry with OpenVDB. I'm not fully versed on the subject, but there might be a scene file in the LW 2019 content directory to get you started.

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    Registered User ChrisBasken's Avatar
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    Thanks, that got me halfway there pretty quickly. Just messing around with the nodes got me to the point where I could export the particles as spheres. Just need to figure out if it's possible to apply a hypertexture to it in the form of displacement. Right now it looks less like melted wax and more like bubbles or soap suds.

    Barring that I suppose I could apply a displacement to the mesh after exporting it, but ideally I'd like to be able to set everything up in Layout first.

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    Registered User Kaptive's Avatar
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    Have you considered using sculptris to add the detail by hand (it's free.... https://pixologic.com/sculptris/ )? I'm pretty sure that would be an easy task and save you lots of time trying to solve it in this other way.
    Just export your object as an obj, load it into sculptris and add in the detail, then load it back into lightwave. You might need to correct the scale once it is back in Lightwave, but it should be fine. If you load the sculptris object back into lightwave using "load into layer", then you can copy and paste the surface texture back onto it if required.

    It's still an interesting problem however, but I'm unaware of any way to export volume hypervoxels, but there might... I've just never heard anyone ever mention it.

  5. #5
    Registered User ChrisBasken's Avatar
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    That worked great, at least for making a melted candle. Thank you!

    I still think this is a gap in LW, though. It would be amazing to be able to export generated HVs as meshes. I can think of so many printing applications.

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    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisBasken View Post
    Thanks, that got me halfway there pretty quickly. Just messing around with the nodes got me to the point where I could export the particles as spheres. Just need to figure out if it's possible to apply a hypertexture to it in the form of displacement. Right now it looks less like melted wax and more like bubbles or soap suds.

    Barring that I suppose I could apply a displacement to the mesh after exporting it, but ideally I'd like to be able to set everything up in Layout first.
    Hypertexture and displacement is two different things, so to even think about applying hypertexture as displacement is useless, it canīt be done...and itīs the wrong approach.
    using procedural textures as displacement is what you can do, and as such you can use any of the textures that also is accessable to hypervoxels, but any other feature isnīt transcending over to displacement.

    And as for exporting hypervoxels as geometry, no it can not be done..but you got another good advice from axis3d.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptive View Post
    Have you considered using sculptris to add the detail by hand (it's free.... https://pixologic.com/sculptris/ )? I'm pretty sure that would be an easy task and save you lots of time trying to solve it in this other way.
    Just export your object as an obj, load it into sculptris and add in the detail, then load it back into lightwave. You might need to correct the scale once it is back in Lightwave, but it should be fine. If you load the sculptris object back into lightwave using "load into layer", then you can copy and paste the surface texture back onto it if required.

    It's still an interesting problem however, but I'm unaware of any way to export volume hypervoxels, but there might... I've just never heard anyone ever mention it.
    No there isnīt any option to do that, and yes...we have been discussing exporting volume to mesh with hypervoxels before.

    And sculptris? isnīt even blender now more suitable for sculpting? seem to have a lot more tools to work with ..with brush extract, dyntopo..so you can use snake brush with dyntopo and create new geometry, and paint with desired mesh resolution to add new geometry.

    And scaling should be the same if you import back to lightwave, and there is also the od copy and paste for lightwave and blender, so you just copy and paste with the help of the od_copy and paste buttons.

  7. #7
    Registered User Kaptive's Avatar
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    Blender requires a lot of orientation and learning before you can get something done. No doubt it would be better, and I did consider that as a suggestion. But the simplicity of sculptris and very fast pipeline via obj seemed more than enough to add some wax drips to a candle for 3d printing. It is also a very good introduction to sculpting in 3d.
    Also, one thing that sculptris is great for is multiplying geometry where you add the detail. You don't have to double the mesh or any of that, it just adds more geometry where you sculpt (determined by the size of the brush), keeping overheads down.
    But really, I made an assumption that Chris is still learning because of his initial approach to the problem, Blender would be just too much for such a simple problem when already grappling with learning Lightwave too.

    Anyway, I'm glad it helped!

  8. #8
    Registered User ChrisBasken's Avatar
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    I have a good deal of experience modeling in LW, but I've only really recently been getting into printing. When the prospect of making a melted candle came up, I thought of using particles and HVs to avoid having to model it all manually. Then I realized I had never tried to export that stuff as geometry that I could clean up and print.

    I played with Blender a few years back but I'm a little too wrapped up in LW's UI and mindset to feel too motivated to deal with its weirdness.

    Sculptris did the trick, thanks again!

  9. #9

    a minus with Sculptris is that "Sculptris is no longer being actively developed"

    Zbrush bought it, then put it on ice, just like AutoDesk / Adobe. So, kinda søcks like that.

    a Nice app, did use it, tho these days [B] is the way for free sculpting.
    an alternative is 3DCoat.

    Sculptris did the trick, thanks again!
    Cool.   

    perhaps you could use that emitter for OpenVDB. I believe there is a way for a particle emitter to create geometry with OpenVDB
    yes.  
    Last edited by erikals; 11-25-2019 at 10:19 PM.
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  10. #10
    Registered User ChrisBasken's Avatar
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    OpenVDB worked for getting the particles exported as a mesh, but only as spheres (or perhaps other primitives?). A lot of the melted wax look I wanted was achieved by playing with the HV texture. Not just the hypertexture settings but also scaling along the Y and so forth. It doesn't look like there's a way to capture that with OpenVDB, unless I'm missing it. This is the first time I've worked with it.

    It looks like OpenVDB is geared toward the opposite (mesh to volume).

  11. #11
    Registered User Kaptive's Avatar
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    Hope I didn't cause any offence Chris, it certainly wasn't a comment on your actual skill level, but more referring to my minimal assessment. I only really mentioned it to explain the solution I gave, and thought as I typed it that I could so easily have been wrong.
    I hate to make assumptions about anyone, even those I've known for a long time. People are full of suprises.

    When I get a 3d printer in a month or two, it is comforting to know there are others on this board with experience that I can ask too. Have an ace day!

  12. #12
    Registered User ChrisBasken's Avatar
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    No offense taken, and I don't object to being labeled as "still learning." I mean I hope I'm always still learning...

    Speaking of, I've learned a bit about LW->printing over the past month, so hopefully I can return the favor at some point.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisBasken View Post
    It looks like OpenVDB is geared toward the opposite (mesh to volume).
    yes, think you're right,... i very well might have mixed that up...  
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    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptive View Post
    Blender requires a lot of orientation and learning before you can get something done. No doubt it would be better, and I did consider that as a suggestion. But the simplicity of sculptris and very fast pipeline via obj seemed more than enough to add some wax drips to a candle for 3d printing. It is also a very good introduction to sculpting in 3d.
    Also, one thing that sculptris is great for is multiplying geometry where you add the detail. You don't have to double the mesh or any of that, it just adds more geometry where you sculpt (determined by the size of the brush), keeping overheads down.
    But really, I made an assumption that Chris is still learning because of his initial approach to the problem, Blender would be just too much for such a simple problem when already grappling with learning Lightwave too.

    Anyway, I'm glad it helped!
    But to consider...Blender sculpting isnīt harder to learn than sculptris..at least I donīt think so, so I canīt agree on the simplicity of it making it easier to use, itīs a simpler program overall but not directly when compared to blender sculpting..thus I believe that notion falls a bit short.

    So if you enter with that level..to just do basic sculpts in blender, itīs not gonna be hard..and you will avoid having to be concerned by scaling issues, and you will gain a lot more features in sculpting that sculptris doesnīt have...and as a bonus, if you have started to learn the sculpting tools..you have that as a benefit should you decide to learn more in blender later on.

  15. #15
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptive View Post
    Also, one thing that sculptris is great for is multiplying geometry where you add the detail. You don't have to double the mesh or any of that, it just adds more geometry where you sculpt (determined by the size of the brush), keeping overheads down.
    But really, I made an assumption that Chris is still learning because of his initial approach to the problem, Blender would be just too much for such a simple problem when already grappling with learning Lightwave too.

    Anyway, I'm glad it helped!
    As I said before, blender has that very function as well..dyntopo, in fact I think it is superior to sculptris in that area..you can paint with most brushes with constant detail..change the detail when needed, and also flood filling the mesh with the same detail, using snake sculpt with detail and new mesh resolution created when you draw with snake brus to create branches etc, and as mentioned..orientation and learning blender isnīt harder than doing it in sculptris..not for sculpting, the rest of the program is a different story.
    It also has extract mesh from a mask you paint, ideal for things like wax drops on a candle in fact, and you can also remesh that upon creation or after, you can add multimesh resolution or subdivision surfaces on to it etc...nothing of that is doable with sculptris.

    And to note, getting started with sculpting in B 2.81 is much easier, you just choose new/sculpting and you will have a sphere to start sculpting on..tip is to now that numeric keyboard tab is 1 for ortho front view, symmetric x,yz, on and off is easier to acess since they now are visible in the upper right menu next to dyntopo, dyntopo also is directly visible to turn on and off unlike before...then you mostly just need to get customed to the options of dyntopo..detail size 12 is by default not good enough, you would want maybe 5 in detail..which is increasing mesh detail while sculpting,

    Correction, default dyntopo is relative detail, you would want to set it to constant detailing so the resolution is the same no matter how you zoom in the viewport, and as such you should increase detail not the otherway around as you do when having relative detail... you set this for each type of brush you want to use, you could also use a standard brush with no strength, but with dyntopo active, that allow you to brush remesh the sculpt anywhere with whatever resolution needed..without actually sculpting or changing the mesh in any topologic way.

    As for Pixelogic and sculptris, I feel that must have been a way to shut down any upcoming competition, I do not see as they are providing sculptris with improvements..and still free or for a lesser charge than zbrush, and I do not see how the sculptris technology is something they implemented in to zbrush and that they had to purchase the rights of sculptris in order to do so...I could be wrong though.

    In the case you have painted a mask which is to serve as melted vax on a candle, and then extract that mask to a mesh, and want to continue to refine it, smooth it or increase mesh resolution with dyntopo, or inflate partīs of it, you need to check options front faces only, that way the extracted mesh ..when you sculpt refine on the mesh..it will not lift from the surface of the candle, only the front partīs of the mesh will be affected, so it is still in touch with the underlying mesh of the candle.

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