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Thread: How are animators doing financially ?

  1. #16
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post

    i agree, the change won't happen any time soon, AD is just too big.

    well better than Norway then...

    Lightwave -0
    Cinima4D-0
    Houdini -0
    Maya -0
    3D studioMax-0
    Blender-0

    Try Truespace ...not.

    Well that looks scary, and that isn´t something you can blame on any search algorithm?
    Which site is it? If conditions is good and a job position interesting, I could consider moving away from Sweden.

    The swedish Authority site for jobs is down below, there is quite a few jobs in the 3D business and gaming etc, if you plan to move...just input something in the promted white field.
    Animator and animatör is almost the same in spelling..but is pronounced more differently for those non scandinavians to know.

    https://arbetsformedlingen.se/platsbanken/

    And if you search for animator instead of software, you get these three...Ubisoft might be well known.

    Animator, Marketing
    Toca Boca AB - Stockholm
    Animatör



    Gameplay Animator
    Tarsier Studios AB - Malmö
    Animatör


    SENIOR TECHNICAL ANIMATION DESIGNER
    FATALIST DEVELOPMENT AB - Stockholm
    Animatör

    Animator
    Ubisoft Stockholm - Stockholm
    Animatör

  2. #17

    site = Finn.no

    but it's of no worry. Those companies usually just wear people out anyway.  

    i'm more interested in creating art, so working 50-60% on the side and then trying to reach 3D-goals at late-late night suits fine.

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  3. #18
    Registered User Kaptive's Avatar
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    Yeah, Lightwave in the job market is kind of rare, but not totally absent. This is more why I see it as an independents tool. The people I have worked for in the past come to me for a complete solution at a price that is realistic to their budget. They simply don't care how I get from A to B to C. All they care about is the end product. After 20 years, I'm still yet to have an unhappy customer regarding the finished product. More often than not, they are blown away with what is delivered for the cost.
    If I went any other route, this probably wouldn't be possible. If I had to hand over autodesk costs to the clients, they'd probably not come back, and they wouldn't really know the difference.

    All main 3d packages can deliver nearly 100% of what most people want, so then it just comes down to what is fastest against cost.

    It's great if Lightwave can get into bigger pipelines, because then you can get broader plugin/asset support, but the increasing cost would probably hurt my business a little. Thankfully, so long as the LW team keep the interchange formats up to date, requiring specific LW assets become a non issue. Autodesk were always very mean in gatekeeping the .max format from other platforms. To use any asset created in max means owning max and exporting to another format. That kind of practice is bad for the broader field in my opinion. But I would say that as a non Max user

  4. #19
    Not so newbie member lardbros's Avatar
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    Good question/discussion to be honest.

    In the UK I think the tides are turning. There is a recognised skills shortage of animators and technical artists, and these join a list with Doctors and Nurses, so it's being seen as pretty negative.
    Hopefully this means that the career can demand higher wages for our skills... but you just don't know how it will go.

    I'm lucky as I get to be a generalist, doing Animation/Game Assets/Texturing/Real-time/Pre-rendered/Virtual Reality/Augmented Reality/Compositing etc. and get fairly well paid for what I do. So long as people don't work for free and command a proper living wage for doing this kind of work, then we'll all be okay!
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptive View Post
    I think generalists these days need to be moving more towards niche content creation, with the final product being your focus. There are so many interests out there that would benefit from the focus of 3d visualisation and animation, but can't be justified by large studios. I have yet to prove this theory, so I guess I'll keep this board updated as I progress over the next year or so. It might be useful for a few who are wondering about how to focus their efforts. If it fails, then at least I tried, and sharing will help others.
    At the end of the day, I'll never be inclined to join the studio culture, because it does not appeal to me and how I work. Lightwave for me is the ideal tool. Fantastic for serious hobbyists too, for whom I have a huge respect.
    I for one am with you on the independence route.

    I take the view that I am now of an age and expericence level to truly understand how the CG market works and know that as a CG professional you have a few choices on how you use your skill in exchange for money.

    I have found that one choice is when you are young and starting out, you usually choose to fall into the "get a job" category and are more readily hired for lower positions for lower wages.

    As your experience grows, if you're lucky, you will be able to advance through the ranks to gain more income and that coveted "Status Role Title" that'll look good on the C.V. and your career prospects.

    This choice usually has a shelf life because as you get older, you become "uneconomically viable" to the company you've decided to hinge your life on.

    Once you reach this point, you're then presented with another choice. This usually falls into either the find a new job category or the self employed "work for hire" category.

    Those who opt for the former category usually don't see the pattern of get a job, lose a job cycle that's rife in the industry until it's too late and they get burnt out and disillusioned with the whole industry. They don't really see that they've handed control of their life over to a third party and don't really understand that it's not business's responsibility to be their parent. And as such businesses are under no obligation to ensure you are provided for, for the rest of your life.

    These types of people can't really be blamed for thinking like this because it's what we've been told to do from day one. The "get a good education so you can get a good job" mantra (aka lie) has been pushed on every one of us for years so it's understandable that we all fall for it.

    Those who choose the latter category do indeed take more control over their lives but in my opinion, by chasing new clients you are effectively repeating the cycle of "Get a job, lose a job". And are doomed to the same fate.

    The other choice available, is to understand business from a higher level point of view.

    This choice analyses where, why and how CG (or any service/product) fits in with business owners grand plan of attaining full control over their own lives and being truly independent. And what it's law states is: "The goal is not to leverage my product or service to make money. The goal is to leverage my brand to automatically attract the money. My product/service is just a tool to help deliver that".

    They understand that the key to successfully executing their grand plan, is to build a strong brand which in turn creates trust, which in turn attracts attention, which in turn generates money.

    So they set about identifying and strategising all the various elements needed to deliver this goal of true independence and see that whatever it is they make or service they provide, it is only a cog in a much larger machine.

    They look upon things in a Skoda vs Mercedes sort of way. Both make cars, but it's not the cars that people are buying into. It's the brand. No one really wants a Skoda, but everyone desires a Merc when given the choice.

    It's not the cars that attracts the big money from partnerships, investors, and sponsors. It's the brand (it could be argued that this is partly why LightWave is suffering in the recognition department by the CG industry).

    So I opted for the Independent route many moons ago, however now I've decided to switch from the "Work For Hire" route and opt for that last choice of true independence by creating my own IP (in the form of comics and animations), distributing my own IP, monetising my own IP, with the intention of building a brand that attracts partnerships, sponsors and investors who will want to take steps to contact me with the hopes of having a piece of my brand.

    I'm not seeking to be Mercedes, but I do want to take back control of my life and be free to do whatever I want. So that means that I too turned my back on the mainstream entertainment industry and am really looking forward to taking this journey to true independence with LightWave by my side.

    I'd be really interested in following your progress and comparing notes. It might be an idea to start a new thread for us Independent Creatives to document our journey together.

    What do you think?

  6. #21

    What do you think?
    Independent Creatives tend to usually keep to themselves. Because of workload perhaps, or lifestyle.
    might also be that they don't want too much competition, share too much info, after all, it was a long walk for them to get there.
    so a nice idea, but often only goes "so" far.
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  7. #22
    Registered User Kaptive's Avatar
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    Yeah for sure. The stuff I'm working on, I have no fear of being copied directly, as the content will be unique and related to my passions. I'm trying to bring all of my interests together, so that rather than splitting my time up, they occupy the same space as it were. I'm really excited by it actually.
    I'm developing my model with the help of my partner. She has her eyes on some things that I hadn't even considered, that seem viable with regard to the actual money making aspect. We've spent a few years really streamlining our overheads so that we can afford to take more risks too. Outgoings set to a minimum until we get some breathing room. Not to mention being a bit more environmentally friendly/mindful in our general lifestyle. All of it should add up to a low stress model (which is much better for staying creative), with a few standard 3d jobs here and there to keep the fires stoked.

    When I have something a bit more solid, I'll share as much as I can. The product/s will be public anyway, so you'll be able to look for yourself once we get underway. There will be a certain amount of lead time as we need to get ahead of ourselves. It's going to be a busy couple of months!
    But yes, note sharing for sure. Quite happy to help others out where I can too. Strength in numbers and knowledge. Everything is changing so much out there that it all feels like new frontiers. Scary too, but that is where the excitement is.

    I'd be happy to jump into a thread if you start one, as this is maybe starting to stray away from the original topic beyond this point anyway.
    Really great to see people chatting openly about it all though. We aren't a massive community, so we do need to band together a bit and make sure everyone is doing ok. Things are so messy out there politically, it's making everything seem a bit unstable. But people are still spending money, and they seem to be getting more conscious of putting their money more directly into the hands of people they want to support, rather than the older models of mainstream channels.

    I guess i'll find out if that's true as time goes on! But if you don't try, you never find out.

  8. #23
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    I guess what I had visualised with regards to having Independent Creatives coming together was more along the lines of how to help each other's businesses survive, through things like, how to bookkeep, how to market, how to network, how time manage, how to utilise data analytic tools to help identify opportunities. Things like that. For example, I could see how you (Kaptive) explaining how you managed to overhaul and streamline your outgoings being of immense benefit to Indie's because it has the potential to be a transferable skill to the business environment.

    The possibility of discussing project details or client requirements didn't really occur to me.

  9. #24

    how to market, how to network
    the ones i know literally start by ringing on a doorbell. from there, it grows from word on the street, or ringing more "doorbells".
    network
    be ready to kiss **s. most people do that, unless they are way ahead and super at what they do.
    book-keep
    https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...small+business

    and, starting a small business
    https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...small+business

    it's easy. it is meeting the deadlines and getting the income that is hard.   
    but sure, there are many things one could ask, and this forum is perfect for that.
    and if you are stuck, and in a jam when it comes to a deadline, ask a person here for help. paid or non-paid.
    i'm familiar with several freelancers who do that. (not so much on this forum, but i'm sure people pm here as well)




    fiverr.com gives an insight to how many freelancers go about marketing and what services they provide.
    Last edited by erikals; 11-22-2019 at 03:42 PM.
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  10. #25
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    Sums me up nicely.

    I came across this video by Terrance Walker today and found it very interesting.

    So I thought I'd share it here because it really sums up my reasoning (as though I haven't laboured that point enough) for going full on indie.

    I don't post this here with the intention of converting others into following the same path as I am or trying to discredit those who choose to go the employed or freelancer route, because all the choices available to us are very dependent on the individual and can only be determined as wrong if the choice made makes you unhappy.

    No, I guess I've posted this here just to give me a bit more validation that path I've chosen is right for me and hopefully inspire others, who are unhappy with the choice they've made, can see there are viable alternative choices.



    Enjoy

  11. #26
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    related to the topic
    A New Youtube Rule Is Threatening Animation Content Creators. Here’s What You Need To Know About COPPA.
    What’s the story?
    Youtube has announced a new system for identifying kids’ content on its platform. From January 1, 2020, creators will be asked to specify which of their videos — new and previously uploaded ones alike — are “made for kids.” They will be able to define entire channels as kid-oriented, too. This rules applies to all creators, regardless of where they are based.

    What will happen if they do?
    On videos and channels marked as “for kids,” Youtube will no longer collect data on viewers (cookies) and show them targeted ads. Instead, “contextualized ads,” based on the video’s content, will be played. These videos and channels will also lose a number of features. On “kids” videos, things like comments, info cards, and end screens will be disabled; channels will no longer have notification bells, community tabs, stories, and more.
    Why is this going on?
    These plans are Youtube’s way of complying with a landmark settlement reached with the U.S.’s Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and the New York attorney general on September 4. Youtube was fined a record $170 million for — according to the complaint — violating the Children’s Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA). This law prohibits websites from gathering personal information on children (anyone under 13) without their parents’ consent. (The FTC’s website has more on the complaint.)

    https://www.cartoonbrew.com/artist-r...pa-182883.html
    This message does not reflect the opinions of the US Government, CG Networks or CGTALK.com. The opinions expressed on this posting are on my own volition.

  12. #27
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    Funnily enough I was getting more aquainted with this new implementation and thought to myself, thank goodness the whole Patreon Purge incident happened because it really opened my eyes to the vulnerablility that we as creators put ourselves in when we rely on third party platforms like YT and Patreon for our income.

    These platforms are so vulnerable to outside forces that they really become untenable to utilise beyond that of a marketing platform.

    This is the very reason I opted to see them for what they are and use them accordingly.

    The only issue that I have with this latest problem, is that the FTC could fine creators over $42k per video for non compliance with their (very vague) stipulations.

    For the benefit of those that don't know, the reason the FTC has got involved in all of this is due to data protection.

    In 1998 the FTC created a department that they called COPPA in order to ensure that data collected from minors was not abused. Then in 2013 they expanded the conditions that needed to be met in order to comply. This led to YT being fined for non-compliance.

    The ruling meant that data collected by YT including data gathered by their ad network required them to be separated into two groups. One for non minors and one for minors. But how to do this?

    Well in YT's infinite wisdom they decided to give creators the option of setting their videos via a toggle switch to being either "suitable for minors" (12 yrs and under) or not. If a video is set for suitable for minors then the restrictions as Robert stated are implemented. Otherwise you're free to monetise as normal.

    So this helps YT to provide evidence to the FTC that they are in compliance and all should be well.

    The problem comes with how the FTC specifies what they consider to be in compliance. Their descriptions of how to comply are so vague that it's impossible to know whether you as a creator are creating something that will be acceptable or not, and if you get it wrong then you are set to face a fine of $42k.

    Now considering this is all about data protection and as YT creators have absolutely no way of gathering, accessing or manipulation of data on YT's platform the question then becomes, well shouldn't YT be responsible for any fines?

    Well, no. Because YT have provided a mechanism to creators to set their videos accordingly and ensure that as far as YT is concerned, they have done everything in their power to make sure that the data gathered is correctly processed. So they are protected.

    So then how would a content creator get a $42k fine? Well the FTC could do an audit of someone's channel and if they find that a creator has not set a video to being suitable for minors but the FTC believe that it should be set based on it's arbitrary, unclear, contraditory and meaningless conditions that have to be met, that's when the creator can be fined $42k (I'm getting flashbacks to the Patreon Purge?).

    Now, the question becomes, well what exactly are the stipulations? Well this YTber best covers it:



    God bless America. Land of the free. The land of opportunity.
    Last edited by Shabazzy; 11-27-2019 at 10:50 AM.

  13. #28
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    To continue

    I recommend this guy for more clarity


  14. #29
    Super Member JohnMarchant's Avatar
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    Honestly more work than time. Glad i am freelance and can pick and chose what work i do. Also have other incomes.
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    Very nice Laptop

  15. #30
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    Thank you all for replying to my thread.
    I am very happy I started it, as I learned many good things from you all.
    I really enjoyed reading every post.
    Thank you !!!
    -Mobilis In Mobile-

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