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Thread: Render crash

  1. #1

    Render crash

    LW2019 does not want to finish med to hi-res rendering without crashing. This is getting old. Many different scenes and different PC's and still crashes. My work around is limited region renders. I don't understand it because I am not running out of RAM. Previously I chalked it up to Interpolated GI because I was able to complete some super hi-res (8K) renderings with very few samples without Interpolated activated and it worked fine. Now its crashing without using Interpolated GI. As you can see from the screenshot this is hardly hi-res and it crashes. Funny thing is I get the crash indicator but it will keep rendering for a few minutes.

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    Tim Parsons
    Technical Designer
    Sauder Woodworking Co.

    http://www.sauder.com

  2. #2
    LightWave Engineer Jarno's Avatar
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    It will probably be one of the render threads freaking out over a particular spot in the scene. Possibly in that isolated render block on the desk's backboard.
    I see that you are using the ShiftCamera. Maybe something is going off to infinity numerically, or a divide by zero.
    We have in the past seen errors with GI due to ray divergence being zero (basically, adjacent rays being perfectly parallel). Maybe we missed a case.

    If it is occurring with multiple scenes, think about what they have in common. Are they all using the shift camera? Do they all have radiosity on?

  3. #3
    TrueArt Support
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    The first thing that you should check is whether disabling multi-threading will help..

    Funny thing is I get the crash indicator but it will keep rendering for a few minutes.
    Because something in single block caused crash. The rest of threads worked on completely different area of image.
    The first thing that you should do, is learn where is exactly crashing area.
    Then investigate what kind of shaders, nodes are used in that area.

    Are you using any 3rd party plugins?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    It will probably be one of the render threads freaking out over a particular spot in the scene. Possibly in that isolated render block on the desk's backboard.
    I see that you are using the ShiftCamera. Maybe something is going off to infinity numerically, or a divide by zero.
    We have in the past seen errors with GI due to ray divergence being zero (basically, adjacent rays being perfectly parallel). Maybe we missed a case.

    If it is occurring with multiple scenes, think about what they have in common. Are they all using the shift camera? Do they all have radiosity on?
    The video was a time lapse of multiple print screen captures I was able to put together - so it wasn't live rendering. I will change the camera to perspective and give it another go. At lower resolutions there are no issues. It's when I crank it up to 2k or so that the crashes occur.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    The first thing that you should check is whether disabling multi-threading will help..



    Because something in single block caused crash. The rest of threads worked on completely different area of image.
    The first thing that you should do, is learn where is exactly crashing area.
    Then investigate what kind of shaders, nodes are used in that area.

    Are you using any 3rd party plugins?
    Yes - I use DP's nodes and Anything Goos, but otherwise out of the box.
    If using the perspective camera doesn't help I'll muck with the threads.


    Update: Just tried the perspective camera - crash.
    Last edited by Tim Parsons; 11-17-2019 at 05:16 PM.
    Tim Parsons
    Technical Designer
    Sauder Woodworking Co.

    http://www.sauder.com

  5. #5
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Parsons View Post
    If using the perspective camera doesn't help I'll muck with the threads.
    I think you'd be better off figuring out exactly what section of the image is being rendered when it crashes, and then by process of elimination figure out what in that area is causing the crash.

    Does the crash report give any indication like the crash occurring in a plugin, or is it just crashing in the body of Lightwave? What precise type of crash is it?

    If you're not getting crash details, Monroe posted about how to set up DebugDiag in Windows to gather better crash dump info, that post is here. Definitely worth following in order to find out whether crashing in LW or third-party plugin, what kind of crash, etc.

    If you can get the same kind of DebugDiag crash report as he shows at top of post, and post it here, we can help interpret it for you as needed.

    Also, it looks like it's crashing while rendering the rug around the desk. What's the surfacing associated with that rug? Are there instances involved? FFX? If it is consistently crashing there, best start doing a binary search turning aspects off until you find what's causing the crash -- and there too, having a detailed crash report would be very useful.
    Last edited by jwiede; 11-17-2019 at 05:27 PM.
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2019.1.4 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),32GB RAM, NV 980ti

  6. #6
    Thanks for the suggestions jwiede. I changed the camera from shift to perspective and it still crashed. I then rendered it at 25% of full size and it rendered fine. When to 50% and it crashed. Now I am rendering at 50% with one thread only and it seems to be working okay so far, but it hasn't got to the rug yet. The rug has instance fibers on it. Thanks for reminding about DebugDiag on the post. The LW crash reporter made a dump to my HD and was included with the sent report. I've sent two of those already.
    Tim Parsons
    Technical Designer
    Sauder Woodworking Co.

    http://www.sauder.com

  7. #7
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Parsons View Post
    The LW crash reporter made a dump to my HD and was included with the sent report. I've sent two of those already.
    I'm not suggesting you send it to Newtek, I'm suggesting you post the basic info of it here, for us to take a look and help determine what's causing the crash. Or not, your choice, but you've not provided much info here about the crash, and without that, we can't do much beyond recommend binary searching for what breaks the scene, etc.

    Also, when you describe the rug as "instanced fibers", can you please clarify whether you're just repeating a few modeled fibers by instancing, or by FFX, or...?
    Last edited by jwiede; 11-18-2019 at 12:33 PM.
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2019.1.4 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),32GB RAM, NV 980ti

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    I'm not suggesting you send it to Newtek, I'm suggesting you post the basic info of it here, for us to take a look and help determine what's causing the crash. Or not, your choice, but you've not provided much info here about the crash, and without that, we can't do much beyond recommend binary searching for what breaks the scene, etc.

    Also, when you describe the rug as "instanced fibers", can you please clarify whether you're just repeating a few modeled fibers by instancing, or by FFX, or...?
    The crash reporter generated something and attached itself to the reporter - I didn't do anything other than attach a screengrab with short description and press the send button. I am not using FiberFX anywhere in the scene. I should have more info later today as I am rendering the scene on different machines now.
    Tim Parsons
    Technical Designer
    Sauder Woodworking Co.

    http://www.sauder.com

  9. #9
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Parsons View Post
    The crash reporter generated something and attached itself to the reporter - I didn't do anything other than attach a screengrab with short description and press the send button. I am not using FiberFX anywhere in the scene. I should have more info later today as I am rendering the scene on different machines now.
    Well, best if you can config DebugDiag and then get that crash info, from there I can likely provide some info as to what's crashing, why it's crashing, and what that likely means in context -- if I can see the module where the crash occurs, and type of crash, might ease finding a workaround. Without knowing where in LW it's crashing (or if it's even crashing in LW proper), nor type of crash, there's little more I can offer to help.

    Or if you cannot or would rather not show the debug info, just leave it in Newtek's hands, that's fine too.
    Last edited by jwiede; 11-18-2019 at 02:21 PM.
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2019.1.4 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),32GB RAM, NV 980ti

  10. #10
    Yay! It didn't crash! But with one thread it was a slog!
    Now trying it on a different box.

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    Tim Parsons
    Technical Designer
    Sauder Woodworking Co.

    http://www.sauder.com

  11. #11
    TrueArt Support
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Parsons View Post
    Yay! It didn't crash! But with one thread it was a slog!
    Now trying it on a different box.
    So it is multithreading issue. The most likely in 3rd party plugins. Find out which region and which pixel causes it, and investigate which plugin is used at this pixel.

    Or if you're in hurry (deadline), run 8+ parallel copies of LW, with step 8, starting at 0...7 frame. This will utilize the all threads.

  12. #12
    My curiosity got the best of me so just for kicks I rendered the scene in 2018.0.7. Of course when loading the scene it couldn't find Patina, Edge shader and the Input (whatever that is) but other than that it rendered just fine without crashing. Is there any way the Patina shader and Edge shader from 2019 be added to 2018?
    Tim Parsons
    Technical Designer
    Sauder Woodworking Co.

    http://www.sauder.com

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