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Thread: How is lightwave doing today ?

  1. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by lardbros View Post
    What's the main reason you guys use it?
    Product design. Three of us all day long in LW modeling/rendering furniture concepts from design sketches. The marketing department has 3 seats as well, but use it only for special projects and packaging mock-ups.
    Tim Parsons
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    Sauder Woodworking Co.

    http://www.sauder.com

  2. #47
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lardbros View Post
    What's the main reason you guys use it?

    I think what I love the most is being able to make accurate models. LW is amazing for pin-point accuracy, and editing models to real-world scales. Yes, I'm sure other applications are too, but 3ds Max isn't. Despite its popularity in the Arch Viz field, it's really not very easy to edit splines or models to mm accuracy.

    Hopefully, as Paul Boland says, it is VERY important to try and attract new customers too... not sure how that might happen, it sure as hell won't be Newtek's marketing that does this
    That's kind of the odd thing, Newtek just focuses on surfacing and rendering, over and over, but more and more it's looking like those using LW are more modeling-focused than render-focused. Seemed like the "frustration" of modelers that became evident around the time of the Modeling Survey caught them by surprise, which wasn't reassuring.

    Regardless, modeling-wise, Newtek's gotta address some serious, long-standing issues ASAP: The whole CC sub-d mess needs a real solution*. LW CC sub-d's are just plain broken. There's just no acceptable justification for them leaving LW's CC sub-d's in that state for such a long time. Likewise, LW needs much better UV tools. Leaving UV work to Rizom/etc. kind of defeats the whole "precision modeling" premise, because doing so means you can't be as precise with UVs as with geometry. If they don't want to do it all themselves, there are licenseable UV tool options available -- and yes, whatever UV tool solution is selected, it MUST work every bit as well with CC sub-d's as regular geometry.

    Even just coming up with flexible, stable end-to-end-reliable solutions for CC sub-d's and a modern set of UV tools would just about constitute a version upgrade themselves. Add in the updated modeling tools (which would need updates anyway for new CC sub-d's), ideally in the extend/bevel/chamfer/knife family to bring those to modern levels, and that'd definitely constitute a reasonable version upgrade, IMO.

    Alas, after "receiving coal" (to put it nicely) for so many version upgrades, it's difficult to muster up much hope for LW modeling improvements any time soon.



    *: At least for CC sub-d's, the answer is obvious: They just need to license Pixar P-sub-d's and be done with it. P-subd's are best modeling sub-d option available, widely integrated in other pkgs, and (unsurprisingly) their "test-verifiable" OpenSubDiv compatibility is a huge plus for ensuring consistent model->render precision, even in interchange scenarios.
    Last edited by jwiede; 12-24-2019 at 09:47 PM.
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  3. #48
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    Yes Subdivision modeling / fixes for LW in that regard are important but in my opinion there are additional modeling paradigms now

    - Volume modeling - not existing in Modeler and unusable in Layout, the implementation in Cinema is what it should look like
    - Procedural / parametric modeling - non existing in LW
    - Hard surface modeling - HardOps, BoxCutter, SpeedFlow, Fluent, MeshMashine, DecalMachine etc. and that combined with QuadRemesher - that's a whole different level of modeling

  4. #49
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    - some new devs, in addition to old ones
    - open minds
    - willingness to listen to and implement ideas
    - embrace competitors paradigms
    - end user feedback development like db&w is practicing
    - stop getting rid of talented devs like ikeda, even if prickly
    - correct the f’d up, poorly implemented ui, esp with new features.how the hell can anyone release an update with a worse ui than the predecessor after 3 yrs of dev and having a dude on staff known for good ui and at least one programmer who made awesome plugins with decent ui based on user feedback? look at what it did for blender ffs.

    merry xmas btw

  5. #50
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    - some new devs, in addition to old ones
    - open minds
    - willingness to listen to and implement ideas
    - embrace competitors paradigms
    - end user feedback development like db&w is practicing
    - stop getting rid of talented devs like ikeda, even if prickly
    - correct the f’d up, poorly implemented ui, esp with new features.how the hell can anyone release an update with a worse ui than the predecessor after 3 yrs of dev and having a dude on staff known for good ui and at least one programmer who made awesome plugins with decent ui based on user feedback? look at what it did for blender ffs.

    merry xmas btw
    The state of the UI is a bit of a mystery, they have known the issues for many years now, some small improvements in the area in the later release, but some steps back in other areas..
    A seriously improved UI would give the appearance that something is actually happening in relation to more modern UIīs.

    I am also a bit baffled that the UI improvements doesnīt kick off, guess they have their hands full with catching up in other areas..ergo not enough time and resources, that or the UI improvements may be a matter of extreme difficulties to implement in the current lw code.

    Matt said there was a special "template" in the UI needed for scaling all values at once, as you can do in blender, modo, and houdini..that UI workflow of entering the same value 3 times all over the UI is very frustrating, and also tabs you can not read due to shortened label, and also the state of node UI, which got worse when you have to double click open yet another window to tweak the nodes, previously they worked inside the expanded node editor window.
    the zooming in to nodes is just bad when stopping at that level it does.

  6. #51
    It will be interesting to see if VizRT invests more and increases Lightwave development or keeps it at the current pace.
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  7. #52
    Super Member Chris S. (Fez)'s Avatar
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    Reserving judgement until reviewing LW 2020.

  8. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris S. (Fez) View Post
    Reserving judgement until reviewing LW 2020.
    I'm not sure how much influence on development LW 2020 will have had from VizRT but it may have some. LW 2021 will be more likely to show any influence from VizRT assuming they choose to influence the direction of Lightwave at all.
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  9. #54
    pass:sword OFF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    - some new devs, in addition to old ones
    - open minds
    - willingness to listen to and implement ideas
    - embrace competitors paradigms
    - end user feedback development like db&w is practicing
    - stop getting rid of talented devs like ikeda, even if prickly
    - correct the f’d up, poorly implemented ui, esp with new features.how the hell can anyone release an update with a worse ui than the predecessor after 3 yrs of dev and having a dude on staff known for good ui and at least one programmer who made awesome plugins with decent ui based on user feedback? look at what it did for blender ffs.

    merry xmas btw
    Indeed and and fully support the opinion about David Ikeda.

  10. #55
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Whatīs David up to now? and wasnīt it so that He himself felt that he wasnīt comfortable in working for others, or in a larger group etc, but rather work single?
    Guess that is something only he can answer to.

    Havenīt seen anything from him lately, or maybe I am just not following him in the proper channels.
    I recall the demo state he had for some kind of skinning tool, almost like blenders skin tool..which I really would like to have in Lightwave, but if it went anywhere I do not know...except I know it hasnīt been implemented for Lightwave.

  11. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas Jordan View Post
    I'm not sure how much influence on development LW 2020 will have had from VizRT but it may have some. LW 2021 will be more likely to show any influence from VizRT assuming they choose to influence the direction of Lightwave at all.
    Maybe, I have a feeling though that VizRT pushed LightWave towards Unreal to more fit VizRT's current pipeline.
    wouldn't rule out that some of that direction and the upcoming tech is from VizRT's hand.
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  12. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas Jordan View Post
    It will be interesting to see if VizRT invests more and increases Lightwave development or keeps it at the current pace.
    I don't see that happening, nor do I see resource/IP/dev knowledge sharing between VizRT and the LW team. LW could become a big player again, NT/VizRT just need to have the willingness to make it happen.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas Jordan View Post
    It will be interesting to see if VizRT invests more and increases Lightwave development or keeps it at the current pace.
    I don't see that happening, nor do I see resource/IP/dev knowledge sharing between VizRT and the LW team. LW could become a big player again, NT/VizRT just need to have the willingness to make it happen.
    Tim Parsons
    Technical Designer
    Sauder Woodworking Co.

    http://www.sauder.com

  13. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Parsons View Post
    Product design. Three of us all day long in LW modeling/rendering furniture concepts from design sketches. The marketing department has 3 seats as well, but use it only for special projects and packaging mock-ups.
    perfect

  14. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by lardbros View Post
    What's the main reason you guys use it?
    Mainly for things where its cad like behaviour goes in favor to it, archviz / stuff for 3d print. This in combination with the aquired muscle memory allows me to design things fast without
    thinking too much about the program itself.
    But for other stuff, like organic / semi-organic modeling or when things needs to be interconnected and for rendering I'm not using it that much any more...sorry.

    So its more of a personal preference and on a project basis. Wich 3d allways should be.

  15. #60
    There have seen many extremely talented 3D artists that have used Lightwave over the years because of it's unique design and fast artist friendly workflow. A couple that immediately come to my mind are artists like these.

    Rod Seffen(Oddity)

    WARNING (there is some nudity in his artwork shown in the links below.)

    http://www.cgarena.com/archives/inte...en/index2.html

    https://www.cgrecord.net/2012/02/rod...-artworks.html

    Timur Baysal(Taron)

    http://www.taron.de/

    http://pixologic.com/interview/artist/archive/taron/

    Taron actually created the current Lightwave 3D logo many years ago with some feedback from Brad Peebler who was involved with Lightwave at the time to come up with the final version. I have always loved the Lightwave logo and hope that it never changes!
    Last edited by Nicolas Jordan; 12-30-2019 at 09:59 AM.
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