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Thread: Any hint of anew LW coming in 2020?

  1. #91
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hypersuperduper View Post
    Ok. I understand what you mean. That said, It is not particularly difficult to extend a tube or profiled spline in layout using a nodal displacement so long as the profile maintains a constant number of points and the point order is correct, and once you have built that displacement once you can re-apply it very easily. I am no going to argue that this is better than native spline drawing and the usual suite of tools you get with that, but it isn’t super bad in lightwave if you are willing to dive into node land. You don’t have to resort to weight map trickery or plugins to grow a poly chain or path-extruded profile. This sort of thing is not hard just so long as you have a reasonable point order (which modelers extrude tools will produce). The one potential advantage to this is that it is a regular old displacement which means it can be saved as a pointcache and exported to other apps or game engines. the question is if the animated growing splines blender creates can be exported the same way or if they are dependent on blender to work.
    https://youtu.be/uw-OQx9rP_c This old 2018 test video is basically the same principle and is all native with no weight maps. Just one nodal displacement. the mesh can be swapped out with any sort of extruded profile with minimal fuss. Just input the number of points in the profile and the total number of points in the mesh and it works. This speaks to the point I had with wanting newtek to make it easier and more natural to share compound nodes. If there was some sort of infrastructure for it I would gladly upload this solution as a nice and clean little compound node with labeled inputs and anyone could just grab it, use it or make it better. Newtek made a single seemingly minor change in lw2018 that I feel was crucial in making it very easy to make compounds that never need to be opened. They added an item ID node. it is such a simple little thing but it means that now you can simply plug in a controller null into the compound node. Prior to that you would have to open them up find the item info nodes and change the item. It was all hidden and hard to read. Now you Can put a really complex nodal network into a compound that reads the info from multiple objects and never ever need to open them up. They are SOOO close to having support for super-simple plug and play compound nodes, which I feel would mitigate so many of lightwaves shortcomings.
    Yes I know with some work we can get something going, I will look more closely to your post later, but it still seem like a lot of more work to get things going, you do this within seconds in blender, while it may take you half an hour to work something out in lightwave (roughly estimated)
    Besides, nothing in what you describe can overcome the lack of svg format.

    Also..how effictively could you change the splines shape, by picking vertex point, or joint and move to change it in layout? and perhaps resolution..if that is even possible, you can change all that in blender in edit mode of the curve, change handle types for curves, drag the points handle , change resolution of the profil and thickness etc, and swap out the basic profile with a bevel curve profil if you want.

    When you have these easy built in approach in newer technology in the software, you really donīt want to go deeper in to nodes to acheive something you can do with ease with another way, unless you just want to show off your nodal skills that is.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Yes I know with some work we can get something going, I will look more closely to your post later, but it still seem like a lot of more work to get things going, you do this within seconds in blender, while it may take you half an hour to work something out in lightwave (roughly estimated)
    Besides, nothing in what you describe can overcome the lack of svg format.

    Also..how effictively could you change the splines shape, by picking vertex point, or joint and move to change it in layout? and perhaps resolution..if that is even possible, you can change all that in blender in edit mode of the curve, change handle types for curves, drag the points handle , change resolution of the profil and thickness etc, and swap out the basic profile with a bevel curve profil if you want.

    When you have these easy built in approach in newer technology in the software, you really donīt want to go deeper in to nodes to acheive something you can do with ease with another way, unless you just want to show off your nodal skills that is.
    I am not going to argue that lightwave's approach is superior or even in the same ballpark when it comes to splines, because it is not, and modeler's eps importer is nowhere near as useful as a proper svg importer with intact editable control points. However, by working with finished compound nodes you can at least get some typical spline-like effects applied quickly and easily. Here is a scene and some objects with the compound node I am talking about.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Setting this up is not as fast as a dedicated tool, but it isn't slow either. It takes maybe a minute to set up a tube or rail extruded shape to be able to animate the start and endpoints, which isn't really that bad. it would be even quicker without control nulls, but I prefer moving nulls to messing with envelopes. load the compound node yourself and try it out. it is quite easy to use. It should work on any extruded/railextruded/magicbeveled face I even put in a scene that combines this nodal displacement with a spline displacement so you can see how you could reasonably easily animate a spline and animate the start/endpoints.

    My point is not that my little compound node is a proper substitute for a unified spline toolkit, because it isn't. it is, like so much in lightwave, a workaround.

    My point is that nodal doesn't mean hard or lots of work if you have a compound node that hides all the gunk that you simply plug in to the inputs and outputs. I guarantee you that there are TONS of these little compound nodes that people have built in lightwave and do all sorts of amazing things, but currently everyone pretty much has to re-invent the wheel every time they need to solve a problem that lightwave's standard tools choke on. Because... where do you find these nodes? the forum? LOL. I shared an earlier version of this compound node on here over year ago. good luck finding it now. Facebook? HA! unless someone has the coding skills to create a plugin and get it on the plugin database there is no way to find or share these spiffy little solutions in any meaningful way.

    Imagine if you could just browse a bunch of compound nodes with a keyword search like "spline" and find a bunch of easy to use compound nodes to do different spline things made by people who, as you say "want to show off their nodal skills" Newtek just needs to curate a nodal database and all the node nerds will come out of the woodwork and show off their ingenuity because you know they would. Suddenly lightwaves toolkit gets 1000% bigger through basically no effort on Newtek's part.

  3. #93
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    I think they need to make tools, UI and workflow that provide a fast, efficient UX to do this stuff so that you don't have to resort to nodal complications to achieve basic tasks.

  4. #94
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    You might want to look at the db&wTools Spline Toolkit functionality, esp. with the recently-added animation support.

    I suspect were something like that native to LW, it would go a long ways towards addressing such situations. Many of the kinds of spline-based operations described wouldn't even necessarily require digging into nodes to achieve, though doing so allows even broader access to the Spline Toolkit functionality. db&wTools' Spline Toolkit integration into LW really would serve as a pretty decent "foundation/infrastructure" for a general LW spline system as well, IMO. Once "native" infrastructure, integrating them as operands for use with/by other feature systems within LW would be a fairly direct proposition.

    I have no clue whether DB&W would have any interest in selling db&wTools (or even the Spline Toolkit part) to Newtek for inclusion in LW, nor whether Newtek would ever consider such a thing. I'm just observing that functionality has many of the properties desired for a spline foundation within LW Layout, and that as candidates for integration go, that one does seem to decently address a fundamental hole for LW (splines). Frankly, there are a bunch of features in db&wTools I believe would add serious value if "native" in LW.
    Last edited by jwiede; 11-10-2019 at 08:28 PM.
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  5. #95
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    I think they need to make tools, UI and workflow that provide a fast, efficient UX to do this stuff so that you don't have to resort to nodal complications to achieve basic tasks.
    Well..I would say again, get back to basics and where the weakest link is and where to start catching up on blender and modo..quite simply, you start by adding modeling tools in Layout, that means..creating curves on the fly that has animatable parameters, the curve itself needs beveling profiling and resolution options.
    I honestly believe there is no way around this issue of the lack of these tools, and curves is just one small part of the missing link when it comes to mesh, point and curve creation, modification in layout.

    Currently, yeah..I may get away and know a little about making extrusions in lightwave to acheive something similar to that in blender, but why should I when it is more complex and taking unecessary time for me to work on, when it is quite simple in blender..thus I have started to work more in blender ..When it comes to tasks like this.

    On the positive notes why I still prefer this in lightwave..
    Still prefer the way Lightwave handles displacement and procedurals, despite blender having microdisplacement, but I may know to little of these things in blender..but some things in blender frustrates me when adding and stacking displacements, and nodal displacement that isnīt surface based displacement..donīt even know how to work that out.
    the kind of procedurals in blender that is in the displacement modifier is so different from the ones in the surface editor, the surface voronoi fracta is completly missing the features of that of the displacement voronoi fractal, and apart from that..the surface displacement is missing many others that is in the displacement modifier, Lightwave doesnīt work like that...you can use the same procedurals in surfacing, volumetrics, and displacement..they seem to work much more intergrated in a similar way than in blender.

    And another important thing, the subdivision level and response is much faster than in blender, which kind of chokes if you work with to dense subdiv levels, sculpting is a different mode though, much faster than Lightwave metamorphic, and you got dyntopo to create ..and change resolution of any part of the mesh when brushing over it, nothing like that in Lightwave.

    So for me, it is a constant jump back and forth between blender and Lightwave, depending on the mood and task of what I want to experiment with, though blender is gaining more and more interest, apart from these curve stuff, skin modifier, sculpting and emissive materials, it has to do with the share speed of cycles..and the frustration of fiberFX renderspeed in Lightwave that forces me to use blender more on those tasks.

    So..sculpting and skin modifier tools and curve tools, that I do not see happening in a good way until they have a mesh core to work with in layout, then as I mentioned before, a native GPU solution (there we may have cycles coming soon perhaps, and perhaps within reasonable pricing)
    So I think those two are the most important ones..but that is of course from my perspective.

    And these latest post is quite a bit of topic, this thread should be a two or three post thread...like any hint could be answered...no not really, or probably, should be enough
    Instead we got ...what it should have in terms of features and development.(I am guilty too )

  6. #96

    hope to see a 2020 release tho' ....  

    6 weeks left...
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  7. #97
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    To be fair this was a speculative topic to begin with. The real answer is a quick no. there is no hint of lightwave2020 which means literally nothing considering lw2019 came completely unannounced. That isn’t a fun thread though, It’s more fun to talk about what kinds of new features we want to see. Spline tools, cycles. Procedural modeling etc...
    Last edited by hypersuperduper; 11-11-2019 at 07:32 AM.

  8. #98
    Founding member raymondtrace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hypersuperduper View Post
    To be fair this was a speculative topic to begin with. The real answer is a quick no...
    If you've had some dialog with developers on a submitted bug report or feature request then I would qualify that as a certain hint of a new LW. They're still working on it and something is coming.

    Speculating what is coming is still as pointless as it was decades ago.

    If any of the wishes tossed into the well of this forum topic have not already been submitted through a feature request or bug report, you shouldn't expect them to magically appear in the next release.
    LW7.5D, 2015, 2018, 2019 running portably on a USB drive on an Amiga 2500 running Wine.

  9. #99
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    Wishing wells are fun.

  10. #100
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    This threat is fun ???
    I do not need any improvements to lightwave.
    I only need one tablet, with all the knowledge of Lightwave.

    That would be funny.
    And in terms of development technology a unique selling proposition :-)

  11. #101

    yea, to be fair LightWave 2019 aired Jan 22, so 2020 might launch around the same time.

    patience is gold...
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  12. #102
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hypersuperduper View Post
    To be fair this was a speculative topic to begin with. The real answer is a quick no. there is no hint of lightwave2020 which means literally nothing considering lw2019 came completely unannounced. That isn’t a fun thread though, It’s more fun to talk about what kinds of new features we want to see. Spline tools, cycles. Procedural modeling etc...
    Unless I have missed such resource, I agree with you...a resource/sharing asset of nodes, preferably where they have plugins, scenes etc..that would probably boost the actual functionality of what Lightwave can do for us as customers, beats me why that isnīt at place already...considering using nodes is more required nowadays than in previous 2015 versions.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    yea, to be fair LightWave 2019 aired Jan 22, so 2020 might launch around the same time.

    patience is gold...
    As far as I know you're still on LW 11.6 that was released 6 years ago... So yes you're patience in person indeed.

  14. #104

    did try the demo quite a lot, but yes, my money bank still tells me 11.6   

    if 2020 is the year of my dollar, i'll upgrade.

     
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  15. #105
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    did try the demo quite a lot, but yes, my money bank still tells me 11.6   

    if 2020 is the year of my dollar, i'll upgrade.

     
    Ooo, not even 2015 versions.
    Canīt recall the major steps from 11.6, to 2015 though, I need a reminder of what features/enhancements there was between those?

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