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Thread: Any hint of anew LW coming in 2020?

  1. #106

    yes, no, 2015 got some criticism for being a quite small update.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LightWave_3D
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  2. #107
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    if 2020 is the year of my dollar, i'll upgrade.
    Right, but say there is a LW2020, what would the upgrade need to contain in order to earn your dollars?
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2019.1.4 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),64GB RAM, NV 980ti

  3. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    yes, no, 2015 got some criticism for being a quite small update.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LightWave_3D
    that's because it was supposed to be LightWave 11.7 and not 2015. Another bad call by the man who's name I shall not repeat.
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  4. #109
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    yes, no, 2015 got some criticism for being a quite small update.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LightWave_3D
    In hindsight, I think you have a point..it was thin, actually when thinking of it, I wonder why I did upgrade on that one, bullet bone dynamic was for me the most interesting part, and I havenīt even used that much of it..though I would like to go deeper in to it if given time, and not just play around with the ragdoll setups, but more advanced stuff with full body and clothing, it requires figures without hair though, since fiberFX would kill all joy for me and take too much time from it all.

    the others, perspective matching, didnīt like the UI or workflow of it, and the other stuff not that exciting for me anyway.






    The 2019 upgrade I did was exciting me due to the vdb tools, and the new volumetrics, but I am ..so..so happy with it due to reflection noise with glossy shaders, and a GI rendering cpu solution that is too slow.

    The VDB stuff is very interesting in terms of what it can do or have potential to do, but itīs the same there..the share speed of simulation and rendering doesnīt cut it and needs to improve radicly, as for the rendering side..I can only see a native GPU solution to solve this and making sure to avoid customers being fed up with that kind of speed in rendering.


    It may also help out on the fiberfx rendering speed as well.

    The rest is for me about sculpting, and using curves and non destructive freedom in creation, changes and animation.

    So it just always comes down to that, GPU solution, and Modeling tools in Layout.
    fluidīs is another important part, and since I do not see any good stuff about TurbulenceFD in a near future, I have vague hopes on the vdb fluids, but itīs too complex to work with nodes only and to slow and too poor in OpenGL presentations, thatīs why I mostly work more with blender fluids, and I have the latest experimental build and should implement the branch of mantaflow that is out there now for blender, once I know how too, I am hoping that could enhance the quality of the fluids..cause I am not happy with the basic fluids in terms of quality certain times.

    So either turbulenceFD needs to wake up and get back to business, or the vdb tools, UX/UI (gas solver mostly) and speed needs massive improvements, or it will be me using the other tools for that.

    One feature I would like to see for the vdb tools, if I exclude the shear simulation speed and openGL presentation, that would be a way to use advection noise on top of a mesh to volume item, as it is now it has to be simulated, in houdini we donīt have to do that..or at least it is "cooking" it up much much faster and it doesnīt have to go through a timeline with different per frame states.

  5. #110

    ...simulation speed...
    the general code word for a future Layout is Speed i guess. Some kind of Speed-up.

    that's because it was supposed to be LightWave 11.7
    yup. but that's the past, so looking forward to 2020.   

    Right, but say there is a LW2020, what would the upgrade need to contain in order to earn your dollars?
    not much, since it includes 2018 /2019 tech.
    but like anyone else i wish for great improvements. (any of these > Render speed, Modeler speed, Modeler tools, Layout tools)
    Last edited by erikals; 11-11-2019 at 04:50 PM.
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  6. #111
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    not much, since it includes 2018 /2019 tech.
    LW2019 also included 2018 / 2019 tech, yet you apparently didn't purchase that upgrade. Why would the presence of that same tech in LW2020 lead to a different outcome?
    John W.
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  7. #112
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post

    the general code word for a future Layout is Speed i guess. Some kind of Speed-up.


    yup. but that's the past, so looking forward to 2020.   


    not much, since it includes 2018 /2019 tech.
    but like anyone else i wish for great improvements. (any of these > Render speed, Modeler speed, Modeler tools, Layout tools)

    The very name Lightwave is kind of promoting something that moves fast, and often in the past, Lightwave did just that, both in terms of renderspeed and in workflow, how you set up things.

    If I get the time I may post a webpage blog with my views on what Lightwave needs, and apart from render speed, and simulation speed...the workflow as I have mentioned before toke some beating with the introduction of the new surfacing system and the new volumetrics, where you just had a texture button to add either bump or image textures easy for acess, you now must now by reading the manual or watching tutorials that you need to double click and enter the surface node editor, add the nodes, and connect them, or one workaround would be to always start with standard materials and convert them so the image node is there, but the conversion isnīt applying the main image node editor specificly made for nodes, instead just the color layer image.

    In blender you have similar to what we had in lightwave 2015 and older, you add the image texture in the main surface panel, and it will automaticle have it wired also in the node editor, but unlike Lightwave it doesnīt require entering nodes to acheive the task..it is a workflow lightwave need to take back.

    Same with volumetrics, it requires you to enter nodes to get a hypertexture going, where in older hvīs..you just pick from a drop down list the most common ones anyway, that is it, with the new volumetrics you need to enter nodes, add a texture and connect it...It is a workflow Lightwave need to take back.

    I once said that setting up sprites and hvīs in the way lightwave did it with the old hv panel, was the best I have seen in terms of easy to setup and acess, and given some velocity motion effects, that is all gone now in terms of workflow (canīt say anything about the realism of the new system though, it is better)

    Some functionality such as we can not use the new volumetrics on points (particles or nulls only) is kind of sad..
    And we do not have a sprite function unless switching to the old system which canīt be rendered with new volumetrics in one pass, particles can not be set directly to
    have random size, unless entering the actual particle emitter and use the particle scale variations from there..and not the volumetric shader system, or you have to enter nodes and set up random sizing from there....just tedious.

    I just wish they implemented it within the Older interface and a checkbox to choose either the new system or the older hvīs

    I think there are other areas as well..with deformationg and morphs that sort of suffers a bit from not being so easy to acess as well.

    So yes..I think they need to revisit workflow and try to take back what they can in some areas.
    some kind of philosophy was hidden in older lightwave, ease of use...not so much more in many key areas, in my eyes they have lost a bit of that and need to find it again.

  8. #113
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    LW2019 also included 2018 / 2019 tech, yet you apparently didn't purchase that upgrade. Why would the presence of that same tech in LW2020 lead to a different outcome?
    who said it would have ONLY the same presence as in lw 2020? (assuming they release it in 2020)
    It will of course have that, with a little more, and that little more may be enough for erikals, but I can not speak for him of course, but your conclusion just sounded strange..to me

  9. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by djlithium View Post
    that's because it was supposed to be LightWave 11.7 and not 2015. Another bad call by the man who's name I shall not repeat.
    Amazing.
    Rob delivered great free updates like 11.5 and 11.6, and you're upset you didnt get another free one.
    Meanwhile, now he's gone and there have been no. 5 or. 6 updates at all.
    #selectiveOutrage

  10. #115
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    I let this slide to even the scales - but we're done now. Any more in the spirit of this little exchange will be vaporized.
    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    Amazing.
    #selectiveOutrage
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  11. #116
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    I let this slide to even the scales - but we're done now. Any more in the spirit of this little exchange will be vaporized.
    Yes, letīs talk about the tech behind Lightwave and what can be improved etc, rather than talking what someone did or not did for Lightwave..unless it is specificly a celebration of a specific Lightwave Hero , otherwise it really serves no constructive function at all, I donīt see any point of it anyway.

  12. #117

    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    LW2019 also included 2018 / 2019 tech, yet you apparently didn't purchase that upgrade. Why would the presence of that same tech in LW2020 lead to a different outcome?
    LightWave + MetaMesh, TAFA, Rhiggit, IKB, OD Tools, LWCad creates a rapid "Indie Film" workflow.
    hopefully Advanced Placement will be fixed soon.

    Tho sure, [B] and Houdini are great additions, and will be used.

    2019 was left alone because of an old friend didn't visit me this year (again), his name is "Dollar", and I never know when he comes around.





    and, who knows what 2020 brings.

    Last edited by erikals; 11-12-2019 at 12:23 AM.
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  13. #118

    I can also add, the new LightWave render engine is great for Cartoon animations in the style of "The Grinch"
    (sorry, can't show examples, personal work)

    LW needs a render speed-up, but LightForge can help in some cases.
    https://render.lightforge.cc

    the DPont intel denoiser also helped, cutting rendertime (noise) 15-20% for animation.
    not sure if that works on a render farm, but then there is the regular DPont Denoiser node.
    (or adding DPont intel denoiser in post somehow)
    a Temporal video denoiser (DaVinci Resolve) should be added of course.

    the easiest way perhaps for NT to cut future rendertime would be to improve the AA algorithm.
    Last edited by erikals; 11-12-2019 at 01:16 AM.
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  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    The very name Lightwave is kind of promoting something that moves fast, and often in the past, Lightwave did just that, both in terms of renderspeed and in workflow, how you set up things.

    If I get the time I may post a webpage blog with my views on what Lightwave needs, and apart from render speed, and simulation speed...the workflow as I have mentioned before toke some beating with the introduction of the new surfacing system and the new volumetrics, where you just had a texture button to add either bump or image textures easy for acess, you now must now by reading the manual or watching tutorials that you need to double click and enter the surface node editor, add the nodes, and connect them, or one workaround would be to always start with standard materials and convert them so the image node is there, but the conversion isnīt applying the main image node editor specificly made for nodes, instead just the color layer image.

    In blender you have similar to what we had in lightwave 2015 and older, you add the image texture in the main surface panel, and it will automaticle have it wired also in the node editor, but unlike Lightwave it doesnīt require entering nodes to acheive the task..it is a workflow lightwave need to take back.

    Same with volumetrics, it requires you to enter nodes to get a hypertexture going, where in older hvīs..you just pick from a drop down list the most common ones anyway, that is it, with the new volumetrics you need to enter nodes, add a texture and connect it...It is a workflow Lightwave need to take back.

    I once said that setting up sprites and hvīs in the way lightwave did it with the old hv panel, was the best I have seen in terms of easy to setup and acess, and given some velocity motion effects, that is all gone now in terms of workflow (canīt say anything about the realism of the new system though, it is better)

    Some functionality such as we can not use the new volumetrics on points (particles or nulls only) is kind of sad..
    And we do not have a sprite function unless switching to the old system which canīt be rendered with new volumetrics in one pass, particles can not be set directly to
    have random size, unless entering the actual particle emitter and use the particle scale variations from there..and not the volumetric shader system, or you have to enter nodes and set up random sizing from there....just tedious.

    I just wish they implemented it within the Older interface and a checkbox to choose either the new system or the older hvīs

    I think there are other areas as well..with deformationg and morphs that sort of suffers a bit from not being so easy to acess as well.

    So yes..I think they need to revisit workflow and try to take back what they can in some areas.
    some kind of philosophy was hidden in older lightwave, ease of use...not so much more in many key areas, in my eyes they have lost a bit of that and need to find it again.
    I agree they should get these workflows back, with the best of the old and new. So, have you Feature Requested these through the proper channel? If not, you should. They are good requests, and seem feasible for a small development group.

  15. #120
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wingzeta View Post
    I agree they should get these workflows back, with the best of the old and new. So, have you Feature Requested these through the proper channel? If not, you should. They are good requests, and seem feasible for a small development group.
    True..but yes, I am a bad boy...I donīt think I have requested it through the proper channels, I would like to to a blog, with a covering that includes images, vids etc..but that is also in requirement of some work, and if iīm not getting my a...out of the wagon, nothing will happen and I may have myself to blame, need to start up a wix site for it, I already have a couple of others, but I think it will be called something like "PROMETHEUS LIGHTWAY"

    As for the "taking back the workflow" and texturing withing the new surface panel, without having to double click to get to the node editor, letīs say they fix that..we got the texture button back and once we click and add a texture, it will be automaticly set up in the nodes, what it also needs is a window frame work for the nodal editor to always be open, like an option to choose nodal editor in the viewports, like schematics, but nodes instead..and similar to how blender does it, that means you can add a texture from the surface panel, and if you have setup your layouot windows with a preset or similar, you will also directly see how the nodework flows within that node window ediotr.

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