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Thread: Any hint of anew LW coming in 2020?

  1. #46
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    Specifically what is wrong with lightwaves node editor? I have some issues with it, but by in large I enjoy working it. (I never use the sidebar so I don’t mind and don’t even know that it isn’t always used)

    I don’t really use nodes much in other programs. I have used Blender nodes a little but I don’t particularly like them there.

    Then again I actually prefer lightwaves graph editor over than pretty much any GE I’ve used shy of Maya’s so maybe my tastes are a bit unconventional.

    From a ux perspective What do other node editors offer that lightwave’s do not.
    For me, as someone mostly familiar with lightwave nodes, from a usability perspective I would like to see A few time savers:

    the ability to create a compound from selected nodes with the inputs and outputs already setup and connected.

    Be able to view any constant at glance. “Scalar vector color item integer” right now integers, vectors and scalars must be opened or the little output gizmo must be used.

    Have a hot key/ button to show the numerical output of every node at once. For material and displacement networks where each node is processing multiple vertices or spots let me isolate a single spot or vertex By picking it on the screen for which to see the output.

    Fix refresh issues when editing compound nodes. Removing and renaming inputs doesn’t always refresh.

    I would also like some custom colors for compound nodes. TheY should be easy to identify from a glance.

    For complex networks it would be nice to have path/dependancy highlighting For a particular node would be nice. It can be hard to see sometimes.

    Ability to add items selected in the scene to a node as item ID nodes.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnimeJoex View Post
    I'd be happy with just a Tidal wave button.
    And a Unity bridge.
    Have you checked this out?

    https://forums.newtek.com/showthread...ighlight=unity

  3. #48
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    >>the ability to create a compound from selected nodes with the inputs and outputs already setup and connected.

    Totally agreed on that.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    It's depressing watching both C4D and Modo, among the LAST to "sit at the nodal table", making more node editor UI/UX and efficiency improvements each version
    Specifically what kind of improvements? Not everybody knows those programs, so there's no frame of reference to imagine what you're talking about.

  5. #50
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Ritchie View Post
    Specifically what kind of improvements? Not everybody knows those programs, so there's no frame of reference to imagine what you're talking about.
    1. One of the problems is how the nodes is exposed and accessed, like in blender for instance, in node shader, when you add a node, itīs settings will automaticly show up also under the objects surface tab..so you can choose to edit settings there as well as in the node editor, in Lightwave, you only got acess to the basic pbr settings, a strength with standard surfaces was the abililty to add a texture directly in surface tab..now the standard material still has this option but forpbr you have to enter nodes, in blender you do not have to enter nodes and add an image node, and then connect it, you right click on the surface color and choose image texture, then the image node will automaticly be connected without you having to connect it.
    2. Also, the zooming, you can zoom in the nodes much much more in blender, it frustrates me that it stops at the level it does in Lightwave.
    3. Breaking a connection with riight click and cut the connection ..which is kind of easier than to pick the end node and drag disconnect, not sure if lightwave has a hidden shortcut for that?
    4. Also, adding another node like a brightness/contrast node, in between a procedural will automaticly place itself between the procedural node and the output material node, with connections set up, in lightwave
      you have to disconnect the node take a color contrast node and feed it in to the output, then reroute the procedural node to the input of the color contrast node.

    Lightwave probably has the upperhand on amount of nodes, functions etc, and of course the amount of procedural textures that can be used in nodes, in fact ..blender is very weak on procedural textures and nodes ..they work in some areas but some nodes are missing completely as well, clouds node and som others are not available in the node section.

    And for taste of the look, I prefer blender look of nodes and color scheme etc, and also the scroll zoom and pan, which works just the same as other functions in blender when panning, zooming etc, in blender I can get around with just the right hand pan and scroll, with lightwave I have to use both mouse and two fingers on the left hand to do the same.

    Something that both blender and lightwave misses which is useful, like in houdini you have a bypass function click flag on the nodes, if you do not want the node to be in effect while working on something.

    This is some comparison on the nodes, but in general surfacing...I prefer the Lightwave UI window module for surfacing rather than the UI of blender for accessing and copying materials, even though some things got a bit worse in the lightwave UI with 2018-2019.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Lightwave probably has the upperhand on amount of nodes, functions etc, and of course the amount of procedural textures that can be used in nodes, in fact ..blender is very weak on procedural textures and nodes ..
    Yes Lightwave built-in procedurals are nice (however less variety and parameters as in other apps I use). Unfortunately the IFW2 procedurals don't work completely in newer LW versions.

    Indeed Blender is weak in that regard. There is a very cheap addon with procedural nodes. The installation is not well done like other Blender addons but it works fine once installed.

    https://blendermarket.com/products/p...ral-toolkit-v1

  7. #52
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Ritchie View Post
    Specifically what kind of improvements? Not everybody knows those programs, so there's no frame of reference to imagine what you're talking about.
    Some quick examples of the kinds of improvements in question:

    • "Smart" drag&drop of entities into node editor so relevant entities'/channels' nodes appear in editor

    • "Backdrops" for smart sectioning and annotation of complex node flows (including pinning, folding, etc.)

    • Viewing/hiding subsections of nodes/links based on connectivity ("solo-mode for nodes")

    • "Elbows"/connectors to help organization of link routing

    • Organized duplication of nodes with or without maintaining connections

    • Non-destructive dynamic disable/enable of node links on-the-fly while editing

    • Various node alignment and spacing tools to help organization

    • "Smart" wiring-up of nodes "dropped onto" existing nodes / links

    • Various tools to highlight relationships between nodes and links and entities in other editor panels/views


    Depressing part is that quite a few of these were even suggested for LW back in OB days, but like so many other UI/UX low-hanging fruit requests, never received any real attention.
    Last edited by jwiede; 10-31-2019 at 03:31 PM.
    John W.
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  8. #53
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Ritchie View Post
    >>the ability to create a compound from selected nodes with the inputs and outputs already setup and connected.

    Totally agreed on that.
    Having the ability to sign/encrypt compounds for distribution is essential to fostering a viable ecosystem, and something that most other node systems offer now -- I requested that from Newtek years ago, went nowhere, I even offered to help spec up such a system for them. That one, in particular, shouldn't even need anyone external to request it, it should be utterly obvious.

    Having much better ability to preview and organize externally-sourced nodes and compounds is another obvious, critical need -- the node panel is terribly inefficient for that, names alone aren't nor have ever been adequate labeling as to purpose/contents of substantial quantities of entities of any sort. Having some kind of visual preview of the node flow itself, along with embedded descriptive metadata (author, name, version, description, etc.) would be significantly more efficient. BTW, when you add features like "backdrops", having visual preview of node flows becomes even more valuable for identification and differentiation.
    Last edited by jwiede; 10-31-2019 at 03:30 PM.
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2019.1.4 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),32GB RAM, NV 980ti

  9. #54
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    Yes Lightwave built-in procedurals are nice (however less variety and parameters as in other apps I use). Unfortunately the IFW2 procedurals don't work completely in newer LW versions.

    Indeed Blender is weak in that regard. There is a very cheap addon with procedural nodes. The installation is not well done like other Blender addons but it works fine once installed.

    https://blendermarket.com/products/p...ral-toolkit-v1

    I would love to have The Rman collection converted to Blender
    If Denis would have the skills, and the interest, time to do so..I am sure he would have an opportunity to increase his Donation income..A lot, if we consider the quite large Blender user base.

    I was about to ask him privately since it is in reference to another software ..but his mailbox full, and despite me telling him that in a thread, it was still full the last time I checked.
    I think it is better to mail him directly on his other mail though.

  10. #55
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    I think it is better to mail him directly on his other mail though.
    I'm pretty sure that's generally the case.
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2019.1.4 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),32GB RAM, NV 980ti

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    I would love to have The Rman collection converted to Blender
    If Denis would have the skills, and the interest, time to do so..I am sure he would have an opportunity to increase his Donation income..A lot, if we consider the quite large Blender user base.

    I was about to ask him privately since it is in reference to another software ..but his mailbox full, and despite me telling him that in a thread, it was still full the last time I checked.
    I think it is better to mail him directly on his other mail though.
    be careful what you wish for

  12. #57
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    This might sound strange but might it not be better to wait at least unti 2021 build for GPU acceleration rendering. At the moment you have OpenCl and CUDA but just right now you are starting to get specific hardware supporting ray tracing. Would it not be better to wait a short while and seen when Nvidia, AMD and Intel release their specific ray tracing enabled cards and have it supported by an hardware agnostic API. Yes Nvidia have just released RTX cores and yes you can have RTX in Octane, but I'd rather wait a little while longer for newer raytracing cards by both Intel and AMD and an API which is open source and hardware agnostic.

    Personally I think 2021 and 2022 are going to be fantastic years for GPU rendering, once all the major video card vendors support raytracing AND an opensauce agnostic API that supports hardware raytracing as well.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBeckwith View Post
    This might sound strange but might it not be better to wait at least unti 2021 build for GPU acceleration rendering. At the moment you have OpenCl and CUDA but just right now you are starting to get specific hardware supporting ray tracing. Would it not be better to wait a short while and seen when Nvidia, AMD and Intel release their specific ray tracing enabled cards and have it supported by an hardware agnostic API. Yes Nvidia have just released RTX cores and yes you can have RTX in Octane, but I'd rather wait a little while longer for newer raytracing cards by both Intel and AMD and an API which is open source and hardware agnostic.

    Personally I think 2021 and 2022 are going to be fantastic years for GPU rendering, once all the major video card vendors support raytracing AND an opensauce agnostic API that supports hardware raytracing as well.
    I can't afford to buy a newer graphics card right now. In fact, I'm hoping to install a second GTX 1080 into my PC next year for possible multi-GPU support. Newtek can always upgrade a later version of whatever is next to adapt to a new raytracing technology.
    System:

    i7-8086K / GTX 1080 / 32GB RAM

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBeckwith View Post
    This might sound strange but might it not be better to wait at least unti 2021 build for GPU acceleration rendering. At the moment you have OpenCl and CUDA but just right now you are starting to get specific hardware supporting ray tracing. Would it not be better to wait a short while and seen when Nvidia, AMD and Intel release their specific ray tracing enabled cards and have it supported by an hardware agnostic API. Yes Nvidia have just released RTX cores and yes you can have RTX in Octane, but I'd rather wait a little while longer for newer raytracing cards by both Intel and AMD and an API which is open source and hardware agnostic.

    Personally I think 2021 and 2022 are going to be fantastic years for GPU rendering, once all the major video card vendors support raytracing AND an opensauce agnostic API that supports hardware raytracing as well.
    what about the software, like LW? Can't wait too long with Blender progressing the way it is. Really need to step it up.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Something that both blender and lightwave misses which is useful, like in houdini you have a bypass function click flag on the nodes, if you do not want the node to be in effect while working on something.
    That is not true. In Blender you press m (mute) when the node is selected and it will be bypassed in the node tree.

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