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Thread: Houdini drawn hair to Lightwave, seem to work now..though you have to..

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Oliver, thanks...could you just link to the tools in question?
    sorry.. no video for the obj import, its just a custom import plugin that you run and it brings in the geo... regarding converting to styles: https://vimeo.com/213902270
    Oliver

    OD Tools Purchase Link: http://origamidigital.com/cart
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  2. #17
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    I am not ready to go all in ..Yet, with the OD tools, even though it would make things easier.


    Whipped up houdini again, and manage to get the grasp on density and hair and guides, so previously I was only getting the full skin density, and by that time I didnīt know where to adress that, it is done in the hairgen node, assuming you start drawing hair with draw hair.
    Nevermind I donīt have a bachelor degree in hairgrooming styling yet, so I didnīt put much effort on completing the hair for now..
    498 strands drawn in houdini for this little test, increased with a factor of 3 in fiberfx density...which yields 1494 fibers.

    To note, I wouldnīt recommend doing it this way unless using Lightwave 2019, for older versions you would need to copy and paste edges from the strands and not having them there as polys only..and it could also bring crash issues with older versions, this seem stable and I have not had any crashes with it as a positive note.

    Export can be done in several ways, I recommend if using the above, enter the groom node (which is before the hairgen node)in that network you have guides, skin and skinvdb...
    Right click on guides node and go to save/geometry, select obj as output (only one I got working for apprentice) and directory to save out and accept it.

    Now..do not try and import the obj to Lightwave directly, it will close the strands to polys...donīt know if I can override that somehow, but a workaround...just import the obj to blender, and do nothing with it except saving it as obj again.

    Load the obj to Lightwave and you should have it working, except for one thing...the fiberFX thickness Fiberv needs to be inverted, the start is in fact the end and vice versa, itīs the same in blender (if you apply hairnet addon to convert the guides to particleFX..which is a must)

    After that it should be alright to render with fiberfx, though be careful in houdini and donīt make to many strands, you can control that in houdini, you only want a smaller amount to use as main guides.
    Quite nice to simply draw out hair tess at once in houdini in a single stroke, only thing that comes close is perhaps erikals point magic bevel extrusion, but only working on one point, not a desired amount of strands at once.
    Images below, nevermind the crappy render..not done much to tweak the fiberfx to itīs potential, just to show the process..


    draw the hair in houdini with draw hair, set density to 0 for the hairgen node...once strands are drawn, enter the hairgroom node, right click on the guide node and save out obj geometry.





    Import to blender..do nothing but export it out to a new obj file again..





    Import to modeler to check it, do nothing with it other than make sure you have your mesh layers for cap, or head and strands, send to layout.





    Apply fiberfix, use fiber width to set a proper hairthickness, usually something between 0.0002 for start, and perhaps 0.0001 at the ends, but make sure to invert the gradient, or set these values up inverted initially....



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  3. #18

    curious, why wouldn't you instead just make the hair / guides directly in Blender ?
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  4. #19
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    curious, why wouldn't you instead just make the hair / guides directly in Blender ?
    You canīt make hair guides like that in blender, by drawing them in one go stroke, and not with standard curves either..they need to be converted to particle hair, and particle hair doesnīt have that kind of drawing style either.
    I could use blender for general hair, I prefer that over Lightwave, but as far as I know of, neither Lightwave or blender has a draw hair brush, not sure if you have tried the draw hair brush with houdini, for blender you have to add the particle hair and add hair, comb it..adjust length, not the same thing.
    And going outside of the particle hair to draw with any spline tool or grease pencil, that would be tedious since they need to be processed through hairnet addon, which by the way isnīt there for blender 2.8 anyway...and besides you would need to add extra mesh, make sure location and scaling is applied to the transformation, and hope for the best for hairnet to convert the mesh guides in to particle hair.

    Houdinis hair draw is the better one for just drawing out desired amount of strands in a smooth way in one stroke go but with the option to curve it as you want, imagine as you do with magic bevel on single point polys, but doing so with easier setup, and controls and as many strands as you want and setting smoothness of the guides as well.
    So before drawing in houdini I can choose how many strands it will draw out with the brush.
    I think I prefer the combing tools in blender though, but I am too much of newbie in houdini hair to make a full evaluation of it.

    Ouch..why did you keep me awake, the sun is burning

  5. #20

    sounds better, indeed.

    i think i've hacked the "trick" to making LW hair guides, but surely is more of a drag. takes a lot of time.

    the LW hair guides can be outstanding, since it is such a manual process... that is, if you have lots of time.
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  6. #21
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    sounds better, indeed.

    i think i've hacked the "trick" to making LW hair guides, but surely is more of a drag. takes a lot of time.

    the LW hair guides can be outstanding, since it is such a manual process... that is, if you have lots of time.
    I need to record the houdini session.

    Yes, I prefer laying out spline drawn curves over actually using curves in blender ..which needs to be converted with hairnet.

    I mentioned that while blender has nice styling tools, render fast..it doesnīt create fibers on the fly as Lightwave does with the strands from houdini, you just apply fiberfx on the strands and you are almost done, you can not do that in blender from that houdini hair, you need to convert it with hairnet, doesnīt matter if itīs a mesh/polylines, or if it is the native curves in blender...so that is a bit limiting for blender VS Lightwave.
    On the other hand as I mentioned...you have to process this obj from houdini it seems through blender, because if you try to load it directly in lightwave..it will close the strands end and start to create closed polys..I donīt know why blender reads this well and open, while lightwave closes them..I have tried various obj options in lightwave..but zippo.

    The hair in the images was drawn basicly with thre strokes, two on one side I think, and one stroke on the other side..or if I mirrored it, canīt recall exactly.

    I think you may have issues though, since I think you didnīt upgrade to 2019? and it may not work as stable in 2015.

  7. #22
    Dreamer Ztreem's Avatar
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    In regards to Blender not working with splines as hair. As they rewrite the particle system they also looking into new data types like volume and hair. So in the not so distant future I think it will be possible to make curves/splines to act as hair in Blender.

  8. #23
    Steam username: Carm3D Carm3D's Avatar
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    Made without Houdini or Blender.
    https://vimeo.com/338575791
    Carm
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  9. #24

  10. #25
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carm3D View Post
    Made without Houdini or Blender.
    https://vimeo.com/338575791
    That's one of the nicer surfacing jobs I've seen for FFX hair to date, the colors and shading look more realistic than in many other FFX attempts I've seen.

    Guessing it was a test, do you want comments on the minutiae?
    John W.
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  11. #26
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    That's one of the nicer surfacing jobs I've seen for FFX hair to date, the colors and shading look more realistic than in many other FFX attempts I've seen.

    Guessing it was a test, do you want comments on the minutiae?
    Many of us Could get close (Close)to these results, but most of us give up...had the vpr iteration been a bit faster it would be easier to tweak the shading, it may take a bit more than just that though to get exactly this good result.
    And a lot has to do with lighting itself, not just the shading, a proper balance of glossiness, specularity in relation to the lights is doing a lot of the trick, now..you need to work on this with the full skin on a head, cause once you start adding a figure and the skin etc, the lightīs may affect the figure in a way you do not intended to, so you may be in for trouble once you think you nailed the hair, but the rest is off...so better to tweak with a full head, or figure and proper skin and texturing.

    Sort of why I didnīt start going in to any deeper shading of my sample, and the fact there was too little hair anyway and a quick showcase of just getting it imported for the tip section..that was important instead of spending hours with it.

  12. #27
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ztreem View Post
    In regards to Blender not working with splines as hair. As they rewrite the particle system they also looking into new data types like volume and hair. So in the not so distant future I think it will be possible to make curves/splines to act as hair in Blender.
    I thought you were working on a script already for this

    Yes, there are two things, just creating it from a spline/polyedge instantly, and a draw tool like houdini have, that would make me happy, otherwise I prefer the combing, adding hair,(interpolating from existing ones) cutting hair within blender, itīs really nice and faster responding than in houdin and in a way you canīt do in Lightwave.
    And renders faster than both Lightwave and houdini, not sure about the comparison in rendertime between houdini and lightwave though.

  13. #28
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    I kind of gave up on hair with the discover edition of Lightwave due to its very slow antialiasing solving, and also working at that time on the discover edition, sample below to crappy non finished render, with too little hair, imported from blender after combing the hair in blender, saving out to obj and import.

    I can to this day not wrap my head around which one is giving the best results in the end for the rendering though, the thing is that we can see so many good renders from blender..partly becuase itīs fast and the sheer amount of users using it.
    Itīs nice to combine two hair PBR materials, one with reflection set up, and one with emission set up to add a slight translucency/illumination.


  14. #29
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    I must add though, I get the sense that my Lightwave 2019.1.1 is a bit faster in rendering the fiberfx now as to opposed to previously, not sure, maybe I have been having something overloading the cpu in the background while VPR refreshing or something in the settings, still slower than blender cpu only.

    Besides improving the render speed, they reallyn need mesh handling in layout directly with a create, comb, cut..and preferably draw brush for creating polyhairstrands, while the styling guide has itīs uses..it doesnīt compare to the blender combing tools for strands.

    I reckon it requires writing in mesh creation and handling in layout as we have been ranting about for years, in order to allow this to happen.

    As for adding style to child hair with twist, curl, braid etc..I think I prefer blenders handling of all that, seems more faster to work with.

    Again to bump the hair import or obj import improvements, pre 2019 versions had issues of converting blenders imported obj strands to proper fiberFX, it doesnīt seem to be like that anymore, you just import it..send it over to render with fiberfx, same with houdini..After you have exported it through blender though.
    And I still need to try out houdini grooming tools a bit more.

  15. #30
    Steam username: Carm3D Carm3D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    That's one of the nicer surfacing jobs I've seen for FFX hair to date, the colors and shading look more realistic than in many other FFX attempts I've seen.

    Guessing it was a test, do you want comments on the minutiae?
    Thanks. Nah, I am aware of it's weaknesses. It's biggest issue is the lack of self-collisions. Hopefully Storm will get it's Point Deformer feature soon and I can fix it with that.
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