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Thread: Clouds

  1. #16
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    Thank you so much for your help, i'm going to work on this for the next couple days and see if I can make any progress. You've given me a whole new world to explore....
    Thank you again.

  2. #17
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    you can also controll falloff to flatten bottom and/or top areas, and also use other textures in to texture density and texture amplitude, also important how you set other various texture channels, like in this turbulence sample increasing also the contrast that sort of cut of or lower or raises other areas.

    The standard turbulence texture is excellent for those not so bulgy billowing puffy clouds, but for the more turbulent style clouds.
    For the more billowing stuff, I would probably use fbm, gardner clouds, or dented...there is also some others I use lite turbulent, and also simplex noise, and weather where gardner, simplex noise and weather is part of Dpont Rman textures.

    and of course..by all means, just clone a cloud item and move it, rotate it stretch or change mode to spherical if needed as Philbert also mentioned...and as you can see in this image as well from the same main cloud_cubic scene..





    Unlike vue and terragen clouds, you can not have clouds infinitely layered (I hope they one day may implement infinite layers to use as clouds)
    And while it can in certain conditions look very realistic, it can not portray all that multiple advanced light scattering in the same manner like Terragen..they may need to work on that as well.

    Then we got how we design the main shape, which is purely based on the actual noise itself and either itīs cubic or spherical mode..it could use a mesh to volume feature ..that would also make it more great, currently we can do something like that with OpenVDB, but itīs not the same volume type..which means you can not add textures to it the same way, and you have to advect the vdb volume, and that is slow as hell.
    Houdini does this the best without even having to simulate the advection.

    But sorry..now I am going of ranting of improvements that I should forward through the system someday, one good thing though, you do not set clouds up this fast with either houdini nor blender..not this kind of technique using only a null and volumetric texturing, houdini does it a bit differently..but for quality you have to cook it and that can sometimes be slow, once it is cooked however..it can be orbited around in realtime almost, but you always have to cook and with lightwaves volumetrics you do not have to.



    Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #18
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    what i mean by fly through, the plane was above the clouds and started a decent through the clouds and ended up into a mt. which he could not see in time to veer off, so,
    in decent he flies through the planes and the clouds go by him as he is now in the clouds continuing his decent. I tried it with the Clouds_Cube to see and it was all dark and not textured on the inside as it was on the outside, so I guess this is for the more advanced student, to be tweeking and working with all the textures and settings to obtain such, if that is possible. I sure have a lot to learn on the 2019, but i'm pushing through.

  4. #19
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clborrelli View Post
    what i mean by fly through, the plane was above the clouds and started a decent through the clouds and ended up into a mt. which he could not see in time to veer off, so,
    in decent he flies through the planes and the clouds go by him as he is now in the clouds continuing his decent. I tried it with the Clouds_Cube to see and it was all dark and not textured on the inside as it was on the outside, so I guess this is for the more advanced student, to be tweeking and working with all the textures and settings to obtain such, if that is possible. I sure have a lot to learn on the 2019, but i'm pushing through.
    Ok ..I noticed what you mean now, turning dark, that is becuase of partly a very high absorbtion scale at 8, you may want to turn that off completely, and it also has a high scattering scale at 10 which makes the cloud denser and darker, you could reduce that a lot as well to maybe 3, and also, the shadow density at 1 is default but you could reduce that to 0,5.
    that would give you a brighter cloud once passing inside, but how much you want to adjust the various channels, that depends on how much you can maintain shadow and darkness detail when looking at the cloud from above..itīs a constant tweaking process.

    You also have a high texture density ..which will make the cloud darker inside, so many channels works in conjunction to the overall look, one need to know how they affect eachother in order to tweak them to their optimal state for any given scene.

    But following my advice ..and you should get brighter cloud look inside the volume, texture detail will not maintain since by itīs nature..it wouldnīt do that in the real world either when getting close up inside clouds.

  5. #20
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    Thank you Prometheus, I will try this at work today. Wish there were tutorials for this, lol but i'll give it a good work out.....
    Carol

  6. #21
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    This is what I got, new to v2019 so not sure what i'm doing wrong....

    Click image for larger version. 

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    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Philbert View Post
    If it helps at all in 2019, here's what I did.

    Create a null
    set it to Volumetric Particle Type
    Type: Cube
    Adjust scale to make it very wide in X and Z.
    Texture Mode: Non-pyroclastic
    Adjust a few other settings (shown in pic)
    Click Edit Nodes and add Turbulence (3D), Alpha connected to Texture.
    Turbulence settings shown in pic.

    You may want to duplicate the null a few times and move them around, rotate, them, etc.

    Attachment 146081
    This is what I got, so not sure what i'm doing wrong:

    Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #22
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clborrelli View Post
    This is what I got, new to v2019 so not sure what i'm doing wrong....

    Click image for larger version. 

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    - - - Updated - - -



    This is what I got, so not sure what i'm doing wrong:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Edited...O and you havenīt set your texture to be none pyroclastic, you need to do that, you can not have it set to none only...it is times like this that annoys me with how the lw team worked this out as a workflow, you shouldnīt have to think about this even, just pick a hypertexture from the list as we used to do, we will constantly have new users (and old like you with hvīs) doing this mistake because of that.

    Turn off or lower emission value from 1 to zero completly, or change the white color of it to black, by default when you add a null and make it a volume primitive, the default color will be black and the value set to 1.

    Many of the scene content have a slight value in the emission, and often a blue tintish color so it sort of simulates a light scattering or GI, but...a cloud doesnīt have any real emission to speak of ..thus it should really not have any emission at all, at leas a very very small value, emission is otherwose used as light or fire channel, when you use blackbody radiator for instace, making smoke trails with particles and heat etc.

    A cloud should really have a lot of mulitiply bouncing and scattering of the light inside the volume, but for that we do not have a good model to do that, you can increase lighting effects with the volumetric inderect sampling, and increase intensity of that, but it also requires GI active.

    So ..much of the content of clouds I would say isnīt properly setup according to "real physics" and the emission channel is more to simulate some kind of light scattering, without actually being a proper scattering model according to how light goes through a cloud volume, I could be wrong..but that is how I perceive it.

    So since you have emission color set to white, and a value of 1, your cloud will be very brightm just as it was illuminated by itself as a light source.

    if you change that emission channel to have a very low value, such as 0.3 and change itīs color to very very slight bluish tone, you will sort of fake the cloud color.
    Check lightwave scene content with the clouds, the very first cloud scene...see image.



    Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #23
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    A suggestion for learning the new volumetrics, go through each value in the main primitive volume panel, and lower it to zero and then go back and increase it, that way you will find out for most of the channel how they are affect certain parts.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    A suggestion for learning the new volumetrics, go through each value in the main primitive volume panel, and lower it to zero and then go back and increase it, that way you will find out for most of the channel how they are affect certain parts.
    Thanks !!

  10. #25
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    I think I should bump this video by Khalid as a nice example of realistic cloudscape from above, and a flight above the cloud..though it doesnīt show a descent, I am pretty sure he used the newer 2018-2019 Lightwave volumetrics for clouds here, but what makes it really tick..that is the ground layer well done, and some color grading very nicely done.



    An article here..
    https://blog.lightwave3d.com/2019/07...visualization/

    a little excerpt from the article, and Lino Grandi did some technical rig help for the cloud, I wonder how simple that was..they said it helped with scaling and positioning etc....
    Personally I would make at least one master null then parent cloud items to that, so you can move the cloud layer by a master, sometimes also parenting the camera to it as well, any cloud or item can then be moved individually within that master, or make a bit more complex leverls of submaster nulls to allow for various scaling of various sets of cloud items.


    "We asked Khalid to elaborate on the process of deciding on the tools for animating the clouds. He replied, “Volume cloud rendering is one of the most expensive and difficult methods to render or to re-create with control. We had to go through a process to find which software would be best for us to use on this particular job. After testing software such as Vue, still or video images, etc., we decided that the best way [was] to use LightWave 2018’s own volumetric system. I upgraded while we were working just to be able to use the new volume[trics] used on the new renderer.”

    With the clouds being the main focus of research, more than a week of the time allotted was spent on getting a controllable rig to make sure the clouds were exactly as Khalid and his team wanted. Given his expertise with LightWave’s volumetrics, accomplished artist and technical expert Lino Grandi was brought in to help. Khalid explains, “The rig system [we created] is simple but effective. It controls the positioning of the clouds and retains the values. Also, it helps quickly scale up the details, size and the openings between the volumes.”"


    Though I would criticise the clouds in the sense that I think they could have looked a bit more varied in height and could have used a slightly better procedural choise or tweaking of the noise...but it comes at a cost of time I guess, it looks good enough and I doubt vue would have produced a better result for the cloud noise, and terragen..well not so nice to work with I guess when moving around and designing the flight.

  11. #26
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    Some handy science and reference.

    It may not in some scenarios not always be a need for absolute scale, but it may help to try to keep as much as realscale as possible, issues that may occour with real scale stuff, could be quality VS renderspeed, and if you somewhere down the line want to make clouds dynamicly change with true fluid interaction and thus using a fluid simulation, that could cause issues, but there are different ways to do that...either simulating directly to large "real scale" which can be troublesome, or simulate at lower scale and save out as VDB and scale up, which could cause other issues with quality, but this is mostly in regards to using VDB gas solver, TurbulenceFD or a fluid simulation imported as VDB from blender or houdini for example.

    http://www.cas.manchester.ac.uk/resa...lassification/

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