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Thread: FiberFX - Soft Style - How ?

  1. #16

    not the same quality, but 20 minutes render instead of 35 minutes.
    achieved by using FiberFX clone with tweaked settings.



    (scene file attached)

    notice; this Fur render has a NPR/Disney/TheGrinch style, and is not meant to be compared to photorealism.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by erikals; 09-21-2019 at 06:12 AM.
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  2. #17
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    having tweaked that scene it looks something like this, and took 34 minutes to render on my (old) machine
    (result, after PhotoShop Denoise and Blur)



    (scene file attached)

    it isn't too bad i guess, but certainly not quite "there" either.
    Too high value of transparency I think, and also to much of the strands affected, only tiny bits of the tip should be enough, then it is a matter of Lighting it good, and also..the main sample you posted, has much more specularity, the fur is like some sort of satin hair fibers, it is nice.

    I am not even going to pursue it in Lightwave though, partly because of the rendertimes and the amount of AA neede, I can get it down to a fraction of that time in blender, and that with the Actual CPU in blender..and using GPU would of course be even faster, and the styling tools to get that kind of look is far easier and faster to setup, edge softness is almost there by default, no need to even change tip size, so a bit unfortunate that I can not accpept the tweaking preview nor final speed in Lightwave to be creative.

    One tiny thing about lw vs blender hair..that Lightwave may do a bit better, when you grow hair lw, it is easier to connect the hair surface to the strands than in blender.

  3. #18

    Too high value of transparency I think
    yes, bit high.

    the rendertimes and the amount of AA needed
    true, it's a heavy hit.

    NewTek has not rewritten the AntiAliasing algorithm in 20 years I think.


    edit; a later example with HDRi

    Last edited by erikals; 09-21-2019 at 09:20 AM.
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  4. #19

    last one...
    HDRi Glossy

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  5. #20

    and not to forget... my FiberFX better AntiAliasing feature request >
    https://forums.newtek.com/showthread...r-Antialiasing
    Last edited by erikals; 09-21-2019 at 12:43 PM.
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  6. #21
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    You're definitely going in the right direction, but I don't really see that result as being particularly "close" to the OP's hair material(s).

    Look closely at the tips of the hairs in the first post image, they're visibly discrete at the tip and even along the shaft away from the tip.

    Looking at yours, there's nearly no individual differentiation of hairs other than at the extreme tip (except for a little section around 5 o'clock, and even there, they're nowhere near as distinct as they are in the original image). They're just an amorphous translucent, blurred mass for the most part, instead of discrete hairs, which isn't much like the original image, IMO. Hair thickness appears much less than what's used in OP, for starters.

    Looking at the top image, the "mass" is clearly composed of individual differentiably-thick long hairs/fibers, as fur. In comparison, yours gives more a sense of something like "cotton fluff" than fur composed of discrete hairs, with short, extremely fine/thin curly/kinky fibers. It "begins" to resemble more the OP type of fur slightly at the edge around, say, 4:30 - 5:30 (using clock angles), but even there is nowhere near as discrete as in the OP.

    I'd argue that until you get the same level of discrete hairs, it's difficult to make any sort of judgement as to the relative translucency. Basically, you need the former to properly adjust the latter (w.r.t. individual fiber translucency).


    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    not the same quality, but 20 minutes render instead of 35 minutes.
    achieved by using FiberFX clone with tweaked settings.



    (scene file attached)

    notice; this Fur render has a NPR/Disney/TheGrinch style, and is not meant to be compared to photorealism.
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2019.1.4 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),32GB RAM, NV 980ti

  7. #22

    they're visibly discrete at the tip and even along the shaft away from the tip.
    oh, yes. Absolutely.
    haven't got around to that part yet.

    Looking at the top image, the "mass" is clearly composed of individual differentiably-thick long hairs/fibers, as fur.
    yup, haven't gotten to this part yet either.
    i'm focusing on Material and Render right now. Might get back to styles at a later point.  

    I'd argue that until you get the same level of discrete hairs, it's difficult to make any sort of judgement as to the relative translucency.
    true, sort of. It will add a bit time doing slight variations tests over again.
    as of now tho' Material / Render / Post is the focus.

    Maybe someone will HiJack this and present a Crazy Good result.

    -----------

    One more example. Tone mapping and Faux (Fake) Tone mapping can be of help to achieve a more photorealistic/filmic result.

    Last edited by erikals; 09-21-2019 at 12:44 PM.
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  8. #23
    Super Member Kryslin's Avatar
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    The individual, discrete hairs in a clump are handled by the "Stray" parameter.

    For it to work, though, you need to have more than 1 fiber per clump.

    I think there are several feature requests in for either FFX sample settings or just plain better AA for FiberFX in general.
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  9. #24
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Not using the provided samples, just used a simple sphere and my own grown stuff...

    Guides 288
    Fibers 240 000
    Edges 576 0000
    Fiber smooth 3
    20 cam AA samples non adaptive..

    left image - stroke mode 38min 53 seconds in normal HD resolution.
    right image - solid mode 2h 45 min and 58 seconds, same AA mode.


    One distant light, one area light, by defualut pretty low in quality settings,
    50% tip transparency and shadow transparency.

    Rendered with Asus Rog G20B CPU i7-6700 32Bit Ram
    Nvidia GTX 1080 GPU (which has no relevance for fiberfx rendering here)

    Never mind the styling, would have to style it differently etc, and change hair reflection a bit, also not shutting down the hair tip too much,itīs currently too small, and too much tip transparency as well.
    But what a difference in renderspeed between stroke mode and solid, I can hardly accept the rendertimes of the stroke mode, so the solid mode? huh.



    Click image for larger version. 

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  10. #25
    Solid mode really hits the render time cause its crreating a volume, basically. Too much of a hit to really be useful, imo...unless you have a renderfarm.
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  11. #26
    Super Member Kryslin's Avatar
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    Even then, without being able to distribute a frame across a render farm, still not very useful.

    Yes, someone could write a plugin to dice the frame up, render the tiles, then stitch the image back together when each node completes, but I thought distributed frame rendering was a common feature in renderers... Renderman, for instance, has had it for ages... Of course, different rendering algorithms do things differently, I guess.
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  12. #27
    Part of the problem s that FFX is relatively ancient..and I think that other than some stability fixes, they havent really dug in to get it modernized. Of course, we could also benefit from GPU rendering..specially if thay also had Nvidia CUDA support.

    Til then, its just a looooong process of balancing fibers, lighting and AA.
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  13. #28
    Super Member Kryslin's Avatar
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    Part of the problem is how many scenes from older version of Lightwave still use it? Thus, we have the double edged sword of backwards compatibility...
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  14. #29
    Ha...yup, it is a double edged sword...prolly has a pointy end too...hehe.
    Rob Depew
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  15. #30
    TD/Animator lino.grandi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Is that Lw or houdini? and if LW..who did it? Maurocor usually do nice soft hair ends, seems it should be straightforward to follow his tips with fiberV for the fiberscale, and add some transparency in the tip transparency

    Edit Lw obviously, since it was from the release showcase, if only I Could stand the long rendertimes though, and especially the VPR..which is where you can see how it is shaping up that is taking too long time, I rather prefer a faster VPR vs a little longer rendertime in final, you just got to have a system that gives you feedback in decent times..In particular for things like this, VPR and fiberfx doesnīt.
    I did it in LW.
    Lino Grandi
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