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Thread: "Oriented Scaling"

  1. #1
    icon kid
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    "Oriented Scaling"

    I'm trying to find a tool in Lightwave 9.2 that I know exists because I saw it demonstrated in a YouTube video but I didn't make note of it at the time and now I need it but can't find it. It's a scaling tool. I don't remember what it's called so I'm calling it "oriented scaling". A diagram is attached to help explain this tool. This tool is used for scaling an object not in the usual X,Y or Z planes but, instead, scaling based on an angle created by two points "relative" to X, Y or Z. Example: (see diagram) Say I have the object on the left and I want to scale it in a direction that is perpendicular to the line between the two highlighted points. The usual method would be to rotate the object/polygon/points so that the two points are resting on zero Y and then use the stretch tool. Then I would rotate it back. Depending on what you're working on, this can be tedious and problematic. This tool allows you to select the key points, (probably by selecting points to be affected in order, with the first point and last points designating the line segment that determines the Y reference angle. NO MORE ROTATING IN ORDER TO EASILY AND ACCURATELY SQUEEZE OR EXPAND OBJECTS IN THE EXACT DIRECTION YOU WANT.
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  2. #2
    Super Member tburbage's Avatar
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    The Transform tool is the easiest to use for off-axis transforms. RCLICK on any component to align the gizmo to the normal of that component. You can also further tweak the pivot position/orientation by holding down Ctrl and manipulating the gizmo.

    Also, look at Axis Scale.
    Last edited by tburbage; 09-14-2019 at 10:41 AM.

  3. #3
    Super Member Kryslin's Avatar
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    Neither of which are in LW 9.2, I think...
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  4. #4
    icon kid
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    "Neither of which are in LW 9.2, I think..."
    It looks like you're right -- I don't see "Axis Scale" -- only Center Stretch and Center Scale. I tried them, even saw a tutorial on them before posting. Those things do what they're supposed to do, which is not want I want.

  5. #5
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    Have you tried the Segment Scale tool?

    Link to the LW 2019 users manual: Modify>Transform>Segment Scale

    Provided that you select an equal number of alternating point pairs and keep the default settings in the numeric panel, you will be able to interactively see the results by adjusting the scale value slider in the numeric panel.

    Just remember that point selection order is crucial to the tool working as expected. I did a quick test on a flat oval geometry that was rotated on the z axis and it works like a charm.

    I believe this tool is available LW 9.2.

  6. #6
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    Another tool you can try is the Translate Plus Tool

    Link to tool in LW 2019 user manual: modify>translate>more>Translate Plus Tool

    First, if necessary, select the geometry that you want to scale (or move or rotate because this tool allows you to do them all). Remember, in LW if you don't select anything, then everything is selected.

    Second, select the Translate Plus Tool

    Third, in the numeric panel choose the following:

    Operation: Scale on Axis

    Axis: Segment
    At this point the geometry will display a bunch of little circles around its verticies and you will have to select two of them. I suggest that you select the direct opposite point (or as close as you can get) to the point you initially select. Once done the little circles will disappear and you can continue in the numeric panel.

    Origin: Segment

    Fourth, you can now alter the scale by a) clicking dragging the LMB or b) in the numeric panel under the Control tab, adjusting the scale value. The geometry should now squash along the axis as defined by the two selected points.

    If you want the geometry to squash or stretch toward only one side instead of its center then repeat the above except remember that the first point you select will be the side that you will be scaling or stretching toward/away. Finally, make sure in the numeric panel you change Origin to default.

    Hope this helps.

    Let us know how you get on.

  7. #7
    icon kid
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    OK. Thanks for the input. I went back to experiment and this is what I found. I've attached a diagram to illustrate it. The first pair of circles represent 7 points along a disk. The idea is to scale those points on an axis that is perpendicular to a virtual line between the first point and the last point. If you now scale them to zero the curve flattens to a straight line. Conversely, dragging the other way would start to produce a bubble on the circle. Simple enough.

    I went to Translate Plus Tool|Operation: Scale on Axis|Axis: Segment; then select two points. That was a minor stumbling block in the beginning because when you're told to "select" something you expect it to become highlighted or distinguished somehow but that doesn't happen -- nothing will happen until you start dragging. After clicking the first and last points you ENTER. You now have this -- a curious blue line (circle B). Why doesn't it stretch all the way between the two points? It turns out that you have to center it by hand between the two end points (circle C). You do that using the slider in Translate Origin. Then the moment of truth -- drag the mouse and then the curve formed by the seven points starts changing -- but in the wrong direction that I want (circle D). Just to note, not only was the scaling in the wrong direction, it did not even scale proportionately between the end points; as you can see, the movement of the points is off center from the blue line which is still centered where I placed it. This tool is scaling "between" the end points rather than perpendicularly to them. Are there any more clues on how to make this work?
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  8. #8
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    Thanks for getting back to us and letting us know how you got on.

    The Translate Plus Tool seems to be the right tool to resolve your issue. I've recorded a quick and dirty video on how to achieve your request using the tool.



    I hope you find it useful.

    Again, let us know how you get on.

  9. #9
    icon kid
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    Thank you Shabazzy -- It works like a charm. Also, gratitude for such personalized work on my behalf.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by icon kid View Post
    Thank you Shabazzy -- It works like a charm. Also, gratitude for such personalized work on my behalf.
    You're very welcome sir, and thanks for getting back to us with your update.

    Hopefully you were able to get a better understanding of the tool regardless of my mess of a presentation.

    It might help to remember that even the older versions of LightWave have a tool or tools that'll most likely do what you want it to do in one way or another, the problem is a) knowing they exists, b) knowing where they are, c) knowing how to use them. Given that the older user manuals weren't particularly artist friendly, this can prove to be a real challenge of one's patience.

    Luckily, you've got some really great people here on the forums for support.
    Last edited by Shabazzy; 09-17-2019 at 09:02 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Shabazzy View Post
    Thanks for getting back to us and letting us know how you got on.

    The Translate Plus Tool seems to be the right tool to resolve your issue. I've recorded a quick and dirty video on how to achieve your request using the tool.



    I hope you find it useful.

    Again, let us know how you get on.
    I have been using LW for over 20 years and have never used that tool. Nor will I ever I believe. Thanks for the video though as now I know how it works if the need to use it ever arises - not.
    Tim Parsons
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    Sauder Woodworking Co.

    http://www.sauder.com

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Parsons View Post
    I have been using LW for over 20 years and have never used that tool. Nor will I ever I believe. Thanks for the video though as now I know how it works if the need to use it ever arises - not.
    Well, considering that I didn't demonstrate everything that it's capable of, only one tiny aspect of it, it's interesting to note (and I mean no disrespect when I say this) that you can draw this conclusion based on the little you've seen.

    Hopefully however, you're right.
    Last edited by Shabazzy; 09-18-2019 at 04:38 PM.

  13. #13
    I believe tools need to be easy to figure out and use. This is not. Thing is, more action centers and a real workplane completely resolves the issue of a dumb tool like this. Lets hope.
    Tim Parsons
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    Sauder Woodworking Co.

    http://www.sauder.com

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Parsons View Post
    I believe tools need to be easy to figure out and use. This is not. Thing is, more action centers and a real workplane completely resolves the issue of a dumb tool like this. Lets hope.
    Ah. I see where you're coming from.

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