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Thread: Terrence Walker Lightwave 2019 musings

  1. #16
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    The point I think is not that pointing out solutions that other software has that are better is bad. Specific criticism is good. it’s the kind of blanket statements like how there are “hundreds of things in other apps that show how dated lightwave is” (paraphrasing an earlier post) that are just tiresome.

    True or not, Who does that help? It doesn’t help users find other solutions, It doesn’t help the devs know what problems people need fixed most, it’s just useless trashtalk, and makes any legit criticism that follows seem like more of the same. Every thread on here gets littered with stuff like that, and serves no purpose. Unless the purpose is to start a pointless forum argument and then kill the thread.

  2. #17
    NewTek Social Media Chuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shabazzy View Post
    And then they wonder why the NT don't follow what's going on the forums.

    I think they all ready know.
    We do follow the discussions, and comment when we feel that can be productive.
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  3. #18
    Super Member Chris S. (Fez)'s Avatar
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    I am all for constructive criticism. This is clearly something more.

    Again, look at the specs for Core. Look at the Modeler Questionnaire. The LW Team knows. Everyone knows they know.

    Being a smaller team makes them more nimble. The Unreal integration is awesome. But it also means they have to make tough choices in terms of allocating resources...particularly after ambitious coding gambits like Core did not work out.

    So why the incessant tactlessness and negativity? It is not constructive criticism. It is more akin to a kind of bullying.

  4. #19
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    The problem is that listening to the complainers of Lightwave is like being in a relationship with someone who incessantly focuses and points out your shortcomings and NEVER appreciating, mentioning or just taking for granted, your positive attributes and abilities.

    In their mind they are only trying to show you where THEY want you "improve" by pointing out how their friend's partner can do or have this, that or the other, but you don't. In their mind this approach will push you to becoming a better person.

    In your mind, all you know is that no matter what you do, it's wrong in their eyes. So all that does is breed anger and resentment toward them and depression within you. Everytime you see them, you can feel the air being sucked out of the room and you think, "Oh s***! It's you.".

    You know they are not bad people, but you also know how badly you want to "Fully U-turn their Constant Kriticism" them up.

    Misery love company, and that's probably why NT engineers don't engage with the forums as often as we'd like. They need the "Dude I love what you're doing" users, not the "Oh s***! It's you" users and for a long time those seem to be the only voices we hear on these forums.
    Last edited by Shabazzy; 08-19-2019 at 10:28 AM.

  5. #20
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shabazzy View Post
    The problem is that listening to the complainers of Lightwave is like being in a relationship with someone who incessantly focuses and points out your shortcomings and NEVER appreciating, mentioning or just taking for granted, your positive attributes and abilities.

    In their mind they are only trying to show you where THEY want you "improve" by pointing out how their friend's partner can do or have this, that or the other, but you don't. In their mind this approach will push you to becoming a better person.

    In your mind, all you know is that no matter what you do, it's wrong in their eyes. So all that does is breed anger and resentment toward them and depression within you. Everytime you see them, you can feel the air being sucked out of the room and you think, "Oh s***! It's you.".

    You know they are not bad people, but you also know how badly you want to "Fully U-turn their Constant Kriticism" them up.

    Misery love company, and that's probably why NT engineers don't engage with the forums. They need the "Dude I love what you're doing" users, not the "Oh s***! It's you" users and for a long time those seem to be the only voices we hear on these forums.
    Well..in all honesty...I would never compare a discussion of lw tools with a relationship with someone, keep it to the topic of tools not working as they should or not good enough and reference it to what does it better..thatīs all to it, the shear amount and repetition that is summed up as complaints, that is something for Newtek to deal with in terms of actually improving the tools, and it is something the rest of the forum members have to deal with and tolerate.

    I really donīt care if it in some fellows eyes sounds like complaints..and I donīt care comparing it to a relationship, this isnīt anything to be compared towards the complexity of a relationship, and the topics and parameters are completely out of referencing in any accurate form to itīs category.

    If we would be in a relationship ..the users between eachother and solve the problem, we could do that by just discussing in a proper way for both sides..and that would solve the problem ...Not, we can not do anything about the tools, it is up to Newtek and the Lightwave team, based on our "complaints" (Unless you are a third party developer of course)

  6. #21
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris S. (Fez) View Post
    I am all for constructive criticism. This is clearly something more.

    Again, look at the specs for Core. Look at the Modeler Questionnaire. The LW Team knows. Everyone knows they know.

    Being a smaller team makes them more nimble. The Unreal integration is awesome. But it also means they have to make tough choices in terms of allocating resources...particularly after ambitious coding gambits like Core did not work out.

    So why the incessant tactlessness and negativity? It is not constructive criticism. It is more akin to a kind of bullying.
    If someone in this thread pointed out that for instance Maya, modo, or blender does somethings better..and also pointīs out why...that is constructive criticism....A for better, and B for why....if B is lacking, you have a point.
    To note...pointing out something is done better in another software..well, that should ofcourse balanced towards the thread topic, wouldnīt look good if someone post a whole thread of gathered tools that does something better in another software.

    Then again, the rules of this is set by Newtek..not me, they need to have the "right eye" and find a delicate balance when topics rise about why a certain tool or tools works better in other software and how that would be of gain for their development VS where the discussion tends to be somekind of promotion of other software.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris S. (Fez) View Post
    It is not constructive criticism.
    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    If someone in this thread pointed out that for instance Maya, modo, or blender does somethings better..and also pointīs out why...that is constructive criticism....
    Constructive criticism is welcome, and is arguably by definition going to be 'negative'. I think where historically and to this day this has gone wrong is mostly when people drift from 'LW could benefit from looking at how app A does it, as follows...' to editorializing along the lines of 'of course that will never happen, because NewTek/LW3DG never listens, blah, blah, blah.' This often devolves in short order to sentiments like 'I don't know why you are wasting your time on this, as it's never going to happen and you should just switch to app A, and oh - here are some videos showing its clear superiority". (There is another variant involving negative speculation about internal development and business matters).

    The delicate balance you describe is the difference between one approach, which is truly welcome by virtually all, and the other (which results in the kind of backlash wherein people wonder aloud whether some members are here solely for opportunities to post in that manner) which advances the cause not at all.
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  8. #23
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    there.

    For instance, I am often in need of rounding flat corners, it is impossible in Lightwave native, unless chamfering multiple times, rounder doesnīt work on flat polypoints, you compare to a tool in the free blender which can bevel flat points with defined segments, this is in my opinion some basic modeling toolset that should be there from start..they could develop their new tools lik "chamfer" to simply have an option to make rounded segments, or improve rounder or bevel to work on points like that.
    Workarounds is to invest in a much expensive LW cad, or get the free Unigon plugin..for a task that should be native really.
    .

    Correction of my own post, I wrongly mentioned unigon, I ment true-Fillet from sensei..which is free and does an excellent job of rounding flat polys..though this basic function in my opinion should ship with Native Lightwave..perhaps something for newtek to address by contacting Sensei, or improve their own bevel, chamfer, rounder tools

  9. #24
    Super Member Chris S. (Fez)'s Avatar
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    Do I really need to post examples? I suspect you are not so tone deaf to toxicity. There is a clear difference between constructive discussions and posts intended to deflect positivity and portray LW in a poor light. Toxic to LW. Toxic to this community. I am not saying the people posting are toxic. I am saying those sorts of posts are toxic and at this point entirely unnecessary.

  10. #25
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    LW could benefit from looking at how app A does it, as follows...' to editorializing along the lines of 'of course that will never happen, because NewTek/LW3DG never listens, blah, blah, blah.' This often devolves in short order to sentiments like 'I don't know why you are wasting your time on this, as it's never going to happen and you should just switch to app A, and oh - here are some videos showing its clear superiority". (There is another variant involving negative speculation about internal development and business matters).
    .

    AGree completely, and that is "C" for crap, verified as negativism..or somekind of manipulation tactics the commentor resorts to... since the commentor may think it would actually would happen because of the comment in place.

  11. #26
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris S. (Fez) View Post
    Do I really need to post examples? I suspect you are not so tone deaf to toxicity. There is a clear difference between constructive discussions and posts intended to deflect positivity and portray LW in a poor light. Toxic to LW. Toxic to this community. I am not saying the people posting are toxic. I am saying those sorts of posts are toxic and at this point entirely unnecessary.
    If you care to..why not, personally I do not see any post here in this thread with the intent to be toxic or with the agenda to be negative to hurt Newtek.
    But personally I do not have the need to witness it...if you on the other hand experienced that here in this thread and thus have the urge to point it out, you can do so clearly by providing reference to which post it pertains.

  12. #27
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    ...if you on the other hand experienced that here in this thread and thus have the urge to point it out, you can do so clearly by providing reference to which post it pertains.
    Oh, please let's not, because we are already just a hair's breadth from this becoming personal already, and that would virtually guarantee it. Let's just try to get back on topic?
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  13. #28
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    Oh, please let's not, because we are already just a hair's breadth from this becoming personal, and that would virtually guarantee it. Let's just try to get back on topic?
    Your call

  14. #29
    I'll try and get the thread on track. I thought Terrence's insights were good for LW. He's a valuable asset to the community and maybe he'll mention LW more in his future blogs.
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  15. #30
    Super Member Chris S. (Fez)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    If you care to..why not, personally I do not see any post here in this thread with the intent to be toxic or with the agenda to be negative to hurt Newtek.
    Of course I don't care to. It's not personal. I respect the opinion of every person on this thread...but also respectfully disagree.

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