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Thread: Tricaster 8000, 860 & 460 Discontinued?

  1. #1
    Registered User Editec's Avatar
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    Tricaster 8000, 860 & 460 Discontinued?

    These products are no longer promoted on the Newtek Product page.

    When did the end of production occur, and will they be supported in the coming years by Newtek.

    Despite an extensive search, I was not able to locate a press release advising customers.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Editec View Post
    These products are no longer promoted on the Newtek Product page.

    When did the end of production occur, and will they be supported in the coming years by Newtek.

    Despite an extensive search, I was not able to locate a press release advising customers.
    These products have gone end of sale, but they are not end of life. I do not recall when the EOS date was, early last year if I recall (although the 860 was EOS much earlier than the 460 and 8000). As you can verify on the download site, software updates on all of these models are recent (Standard Edition was last updated in May and Advanced Edition 3 was updated just two weeks ago). NewTek tries to support systems as long as possible, but at some point they will reach end of life.
    Kane Peterson
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    Registered User Paris MkVI's Avatar
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    I imagine that, basically, it's a Windows 7 thing. An unavoidable downside to systems with an OS hiding under the hood.
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    Grizzled Veteran jcupp's Avatar
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    The TC460 went EOS on Feb. 28, 2019. The TC8000 at about the same time I believe. The TC860 earlier as it was made redundant by TCAE.
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    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paris MkVI View Post
    I imagine that, basically, it's a Windows 7 thing. An unavoidable downside to systems with an OS hiding under the hood.
    Software is a factor, but software is generally more easily updated than hardware. In turn, hardware advances more readily offer performance increases that make new things possible. Wherever practical, we extend benefits based on software back to systems that shipped years ago, but of course there are limits.

    With regards to hardware components, eventually suppliers signal their intention to stop producing a certain generation, making it necessary to both stockpile adequately for warranty/repair needs and cut over to the next generation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paris MkVI View Post
    I imagine that, basically, it's a Windows 7 thing. An unavoidable downside to systems with an OS hiding under the hood.
    I don't think that's it at all - the Mini used to ship with Win 7 and now ships with Win 10. So it's not the OS, but rather the hardware itself determining end-of-sale. There is little need these days for ANALOG video which was part of those 3 models, and Newtek is also pushing the NDI solution as the future. Thus the TC1 and 410 Plus to fill these needs without analog.

    Thanks

    Jeff
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    Registered User Editec's Avatar
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    Thanks for responses by all in this thread. Jeff Pulera’s comment is worth merit, as the analog video I/O are not a major selling point these days. However, the eight BNC SD/HD-SDI inputs with the multiple SD/HD/SDI outputs in the 8000 and 800 models are still relevant in most production set-ups today, and this has surprised me and others in the industry. Combined with eight NDI inputs and eight XLR stereo analog inputs and four XLR analog outputs , this would reduce the complexity on the connector back plane and be a powerhouse for many years to come.

    As for the change in the operating system to Windows 10, this does not present any problems in maintaining the security or functionality of the Tricaster software. There are many clever developers at Newtek who have the skills to secure the Tricaster system from unwanted Windows updates, the removal of consumer style applications (Windows Store, Cortana, Edge, etc) and lock down the privacy/security settings. This can be done with all flavours of Windows 10 (Professional, Home, LTSB and iOT).

    The eight channel devices in the Tricaster and 3Play ranges still play an important role in the continuance of the good reputation and value for money by Newtek in today’s competitive video production hardware market.

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    "the eight BNC SD/HD-SDI inputs with the multiple SD/HD/SDI outputs in the 8000 and 800 models are still relevant in most production set-ups today"

    Agreed 4 SDI inputs is not enough for many situations. And again, this is where Newtek is forward-looking with IP-based production. If you need additional SDI inputs, then you add Spark units or a Studio Input Module to gain additional SDI sources (via NDI). So rather than manufacturing and offering multiple models with varying amounts of SDI ports on the back, we have the TC1 with 4 SDI inputs, and up to 16 inputs total, so by adding additional Sparks or I/O modules, the TC1 can accommodate 16 SDI sources. Makes sense to keep the initial price (and size) down, but for users requiring additional SDI sources they can add them incrementally as needed.

    And TC1 does have 4 SDI outs, each of which can be a different source. Those 4 outputs are also available as NDI which can be converted back to SDI, plus any of the 4 SDI inputs AUTOMATICALLY go out as NDI also, so really we now have 8 independent outputs available (as NDI) - meaning 4 SDI sources plus 4 MIX outputs (Program, M/E, Preview, most anything in the system).

    As for the 410 Plus, I believe that still physically has 4 SDI outs, but arranged as two output pairs, but then you still get all the NDI outputs which should be 8 again. And of course 410 Plus can also be expanded via SDI > NDI converters, up to 8 total sources.

    Thanks
    Jeff Pulera
    Streaming Broadcast Solutions - Newtek Elite

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  9. #9
    NewTek Social Media Chuck's Avatar
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    End of sale and end of life for products is not typically subject matter for press releases in the industry. End of life for a product will sometimes involve direct notice to registered users, sometimes simply be informally communicated through support content such as blog or knowledge base entries. As can be seen on our Downloads and Documentation page, our support services keep the final versions of product software in place for a pretty long time.
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    The problem with this idea of end of sale is not end of life is not valid for some of us users. Unless Newtek gives us a update to windows 10, means its end of life. Sorry but from a teacher that spent a lot of money on his tricaster...this is crap.

  11. #11
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    The version of Windows 7 embedded on your TriCaster has support thru 2023 https://support.newtek.com/hc/en-us/...End-of-Support.
    Zane Condren
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    That's like saying hey you have Cancer.....Butttt...you have 4 years to live before you die. For those of us who invested in a tricaster (which are not cheap). This is such a horrible answer. Especially those of us in education. Where upgrading such a large cost item, is not something that I can go to my admin and say, " I know we spent this 6 years ago, but now I need to to spend it again." My admin is going to say, find another way. I am a realist in the fact that technology will always grow faster than I can buy things. It's the nature of my job. But this is lazy programing to me. The hardware is not incapable of doing the job that needs to be done, it's a software issue. FYI, I lose my tricasters ability to use our schools network in Dec. which means I lose my ability to run my broadcast journalism class. All because of lazy programming. I think this whole thing crept up on Newtek and they just don't want to fix it. So it's easier to wash their hands.

  13. #13
    NewTek Social Media Chuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerald_pierucci View Post
    That's like saying hey you have Cancer.....Butttt...you have 4 years to live before you die. For those of us who invested in a tricaster (which are not cheap). This is such a horrible answer. Especially those of us in education. Where upgrading such a large cost item, is not something that I can go to my admin and say, " I know we spent this 6 years ago, but now I need to to spend it again." My admin is going to say, find another way. I am a realist in the fact that technology will always grow faster than I can buy things. It's the nature of my job. But this is lazy programing to me. The hardware is not incapable of doing the job that needs to be done, it's a software issue. FYI, I lose my tricasters ability to use our schools network in Dec. which means I lose my ability to run my broadcast journalism class. All because of lazy programming. I think this whole thing crept up on Newtek and they just don't want to fix it. So it's easier to wash their hands.
    You seem to be conflating "end-of-sale" with "end-of-programming" and that is not the case. As noted, the products have been off sale for some time already, and yet there have been recent TriCaster software updates for these posted. That there will not be others is not a valid assumption.

    As to the operating system, it is not the case that TriCaster software engineering can necessarily account for OS changes over time. For example, hardware drivers for equipment that was concurrent with Windows 7 may not be available for Windows 10, making upgrading the OS not an option for that hardware combination. That's not an issue that can be resolved in the application.

    As far as "losing the ability to use our schools network" neither the hardware nor the OS software nor the application software is incapable of doing the job that needs to be done. If only Windows 10 OS systems will be allowed to access the network and no variances can be applied for, that would be a policy decision of the school's or district's IT department. Other IT departments can and do allow for multiple OS generations to access a network, or even when trying to keep standard systems at OS parity across the school or the district, allow variances for specialty application systems, running software highly tuned to specific hardware and OS, such as TriCasters.

    This isn't a generic system doing a general range of functions, it is a specialty appliance doing video production work for students of broadcast and media production. Many educators have been able to work with their administrators and IT staff to allow for such specialist production appliances to continue with network privileges as needed for educational goals, whatever requirements were in place for generic systems. I certainly hope this can be the case for any educator facing this issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    As far as "losing the ability to use our schools network" neither the hardware nor the OS software nor the application software is incapable of doing the job that needs to be done. If only Windows 10 OS systems will be allowed to access the network and no variances can be applied for, that would be a policy decision of the school's or district's IT department. Other IT departments can and do allow for multiple OS generations to access a network, or even when trying to keep standard systems at OS parity across the school or the district, allow variances for specialty application systems, running software highly tuned to specific hardware and OS, such as TriCasters.
    Exactly. This is little more than a failure to communicate with the IT administration. Totally solveable if people feel like it.

  15. #15
    NewTek Social Media Chuck's Avatar
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    For those who may need to deal with their IT departments for this issue (skewed toward educational environments):

    The goal that IT departments have with respect to mandating all networked systems go to a common and newer OS is usually two-fold:

    • Security
      • will be better due to security improvements in the new OS
      • will be simplified to only the security issues present in a single OS
    • Simplifying maintenance: one OS, one set of OS problems to learn and deal with for all systems


    However, both of these issues are really actually restricted to the general purpose systems doing the general types of work required within the environment:

    • Running standard business applications such as Microsoft Office
    • Receiving Email
    • Browsing the web with designated browsers
    • Running specialist applications (where these are not done in templates in Office):
      • Gradebook software
      • Lesson Planning Software
      • Special Purpose Performance Evaluation Software
      • Compliance and Reporting Software


    Email, web browsing and shared files and documents between the commonly targeted standard business applications are the points of vulnerability for these functions, and none of them should be present on a TriCaster system:

    • No email in or out
    • Traffic to local network receives/sends NDI media streams, or sends streaming media protocols, not any of the file types that would be of concern with respect to the vulnerabilities present in general systems running business and profession-specific software
    • Internet connection, when present is used to send images and video to known social media and CDN networks, not for browsing
    • Incoming files are going to be video and image files from known sources:
      • Live input from cameras
      • Post produced video and images from general systems running specialized editing and graphics applications (Macs running Final Cut Pro, Windows systems running Adobe Premiere, Photoshop, etc.) and, again, not running any of the standard software and not web browsing
    • Neither standard nor specialized business and education-specific software is installed - no MS Office, no Gradebook applications, etc.


    From a maintenance perspective, the TriCaster also does not present the same problems as the general systems being used with business and profession-specific applications. The Restore functions built-in allow even computer-inexperienced users to restore the factory default OS and software in the event of a problem, and are certainly easy for IT professionals to manage. Most of the common issues that can arise when users are interacting with the OS as directly as they do in general systems are not going to occur in a TriCaster, which boots into the TriCaster software environment directly, and keeps the user there pretty much 100% of the time.

    So neither the security nor the maintenance issues being addressed for the general systems are present in TriCaster, a specialized appliance for media production and distribution.

    IT also needs to know that each form of TriCaster is an application written very precisely to the hardware and the OS on which it resides. This is necessary for the functionality and the performance required for reliable multi-channel video processing and throughput. Swapping out any of this specific hardware/OS combination can render the application anything from occasionally glitchy to utterly nonfunctional. And for quality video production, even occasionally glitchy is not acceptable. TriCaster is an appliance - it happens to include networking ability as part of the job it needs to do, but it is not the same as the general systems running general applications, and needs to be excepted from the same treatment, from an IT standpoint.

    Many professionals using TriCasters have been able to make the case for their TriCasters with their organization's IT department using these perspectives; we hope these can be of use to others running into these issues within their organizations.
    Last edited by Chuck; 09-04-2019 at 12:44 PM.
    Chuck Baker
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    Software Developer's Dilemma: The better the new feature, the more feature requests it will generate. - C. Baker
    Please note that any statements regarding future product development are forward looking and subject to change without notice.

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