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Thread: Arched windows-How would you model them?

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  1. #1
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Arched windows-How would you model them?

    If you have lw cad, that would probably be much easier, not sure if it has presets for arched windows..I think HR giger had some though.

    So if you have lw cad and not using presets..how would you approach it in lw cad.
    And if not Lw cad...how would you approach modeling the arched windows in modeler only, or would you use the help of another tool?



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  2. #2
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    It does and so that's what the HR prefix on them stands for. Been awhile.

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    So I think your question is: how would you model this from scratch? I'm too rusty with it to answer but should be pretty straight forward. And probably not too much different that w/o LWCad but not quite as easy or probably way more steps.

    Every time I watch Victor do a procedure it looks easy but when I try to recall the steps a few weeks later, I'm all befuddled & have to go review the vids again.
    "Never be a cat in a cartoon. Never." Chief Wiggum

  3. #3
    In LWCAD by default, every Boolean is going to be a square cut because what LWCAD is doing behind the scenes is making a bounding box Boolean cutter for your library objects so doors and windows with their typical square/rectangular shape don't present problems. For the LWCAD presets I made, I used a custom curve profile which you can specify as a cutter when you place objects into the library. So for things like the round window shape Ma3rk is showing, I had to create the object, then trace the outline of that objects outer points using LWCAD line tool. It has to match exactly the profile of the round window shape. So in other words, if the object was made up of a disc shape with 32 points, the curve profile I used as a cutter also had to be created with 32 points and had to match each vertex exactly, otherwise there would be gaps between the wall and the actual window (or overlaps). Unfortunately, with Modeler's destructive nature, there is no changing of the resolution of the window and so each preset you have in your library which uses a Boolean has a fixed resolution.

    To be honest, its been a few years now since I've used either LW or LWCAD now but from what I recall, just use a rectangle tool, then use the arch tool to create the top shape of the window, and trim the top line on the rectangle. I don't recall if you have to join the rectangle and the arch but I believe so. I select all the curves of the window except for the bottom horizontal and use the offset tool to create the inner arch. Then just draw lines across to create the other frames and then use trim tool to trim off the excess lines which extend past the shape of the window. Then run the profiler tool which whatever shape you want your frame to be.

    The HR on the presets was just because most people just referred to me as HR and Steve presets had no ring to it so I left it.

  4. #4
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Yes, lwcad would make this so much easier probably...just had a go at approaching it..which I havenīt followed through properly.
    I ended up using inkscape and drawing the shapes, and finally using object to path and stroke to path and making sure itīs the shame thickness,
    then union all those pieces, the angled frame parts I simply rotated at a certain angle.

    then just export to eps and extruded a tiny bit, now..this may work if thatīs all you need, but you may want to round edges a bit with chamfer or rounder, then you need to clean it up ..
    which I later did after posting that image, that means using connect between points or the make poly command when adressing certain areas and points,
    so I finally got a version that I could round decently, though rounding with the native tool for this whole section isnīt that good, worked better in blender to round.

    As hrgiger says, you need to plan out the segments in advance, and make sure you have enough segments from scratch as well so it holds up at a certain close render,
    will see if I can make it more effecient in modeling purely in native lw modeler, or if I can make the shapes easier and more accurate in inkscape before export,
    you would still have to adress the intersection of the frames with the connect tool and some other tools if you want nice rounding after extrusion.

    profiler and realtime booleans would help, lwcad may be an option in the future..but I am also currently trying learn and use more of blender stuff...
    and I reckon box cutter and hardops is a must, so those plugins may be priority before lw cad, it also depends on what happens in native lw modeler anytime soon as well.

    But anyway, good that I finally got eps to work when I use inkscape and lightwave, autoaxis drill works too, not as slick as svg format to blender wich maintains color for each segment,
    and it maintains the curves as handles when imported to blender in a much better way than eps can work for Lightwave.

    I did the frame trace construction manually with a background image of an arched window in inkscape

    As for native lw model, you could simply draw a flat disc in back view, delete bottom half and extend that bottom half end down, find that seem to be easier than drawing an arch..
    you just need to be aware of the proper radius, then bevel inset to created the first arch profile frame,
    then do it again with the inside frame arch, then you could adress the horizontal frames quite easy, copy them and rotate for the angled frame parts..
    the hard part would be to connect them to the arched framed properly.

    Iīm gonna do some blender sessions as well and see whatīs more comfortable to work with, you go the wire tool to adress sections there,
    there is also the archimesh panel windows in blener which can use some arched windows, but donīt think it has this kind of framing to set up.
    One advantage there may be that the rounding resolution is parametrical and can be changed at anytime.

  5. #5
    Founding member raymondtrace's Avatar
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    This is hiding in the forums...

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    NuArchitect
    LW7.5D, 2015, 2018, 2019 running portably on a USB drive on an Amiga 2500 running Wine.

  6. #6
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raymondtrace View Post
    This is hiding in the forums...

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    NuArchitect
    You know what..that one has passed me by..though yet free to test and use though donations is welcome, why?
    to many zipfiles to download one at the time, and then the installation process...
    Installation which he himself admits may be a bif confusing.
    Hope he finds the time to create single download packages and installation process easier, then make afuzz on it on his website which he currently doesnīt, I think that could attract more people.
    But to early to tell since I havenīt installed it yet.

    The zipfilel of the scripts and help files can be found here..
    https://forums.newtek.com/showthread...le-V4-released

    Installation:
    The files from the file nuArchitectV4LS.zip should be placed in your LW-Pluginpath
    Than create a Folder (no matter where, no matter how you Name it) Lets say "nuSoft".
    Create a subfolder of this Folder and Name it "Help"
    In this "Help" Folder create 3 Folders and Name them "css", "img" and "js"
    All Files from nuArchitectV4css.zip (there is only 1) should be placed in the Folder "css"
    All files from nuArchitectV4js.zip (there is only 1) should be placed in the Folder "js"
    All files from the files nuArchitectV4img1.zip - nuArchitectV4img6.zip should be placed in the Folder "img"
    All files from the nuArchitectV4html.zip should be placed in the Folder "Help"
    All files from nuArchitectV4dat.zip should be placed in the "nuSoft" Folder (the first Folder you have created)


    But I may give it a go, though If anyone knows if the kind of arched windows I made here is possible with this plugin?


    One basic thing he could do, or someone could do to help out, that is to sort in all the files in the corresponding folders that he recommends, as a base start, pack it in to One single zip file once done, and all you have to do as a user is to pack it up in to desired main plugin folder, like thirdparty/NuARchitect...which then contains all subfolders and files properly places therein.

  7. #7
    Super Member Kryslin's Avatar
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    Yes, you can use NuArchitect. Quite a number of useful plugins in that set.

    How would I model an arched window?
    1) Start with a default disc, centered on the origin. bevel it, inset it some amount. Then, collapse the polygon. delete all the triangles that are below the Y axis. select the internal edges, connect.
    2) Select the four bottom edges, and extrude (e) then translate down. repeat 4 times.
    3) In the arched section select groups of 3 sections, fuse (z) them together. You should now have your basic window outline.
    4) Bevel everything, be sure to check the new surface box. This gives you your muntins, surface already assigned.
    5) The outer edge isn't the correct thickness, so you'll have to adjust it. I used Scale (H), around the origin, on the outer edge of the shape. Adjust as needed.
    6) Select your new surface, set up in 4). Cut and Paste the geometry, then thicken.
    7) Select the remainder of the geometry, thicken. Adjust position so that glass is centered in muntins.
    8) Press F3
    9) Add transparency to glass surface.
    10) Add your edge bevels, or use an edge shader on the muntins' surface.
    11) Done.

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    (Apologies for the crap render.)
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  8. #8
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kryslin View Post
    Yes, you can use NuArchitect. Quite a number of useful plugins in that set.

    How would I model an arched window?
    1) Start with a default disc, centered on the origin. bevel it, inset it some amount. Then, collapse the polygon. delete all the triangles that are below the Y axis. select the internal edges, connect.
    2) Select the four bottom edges, and extrude (e) then translate down. repeat 4 times.
    3) In the arched section select groups of 3 sections, fuse (z) them together. You should now have your basic window outline.
    4) Bevel everything, be sure to check the new surface box. This gives you your muntins, surface already assigned.
    5) The outer edge isn't the correct thickness, so you'll have to adjust it. I used Scale (H), around the origin, on the outer edge of the shape. Adjust as needed.
    6) Select your new surface, set up in 4). Cut and Paste the geometry, then thicken.
    7) Select the remainder of the geometry, thicken. Adjust position so that glass is centered in muntins.
    8) Press F3
    9) Add transparency to glass surface.
    10) Add your edge bevels, or use an edge shader on the muntins' surface.
    11) Done.

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    (Apologies for the crap render.)

    I start of with a disc to if I were to model in lw only, but not collapsing, I usally delete bottom half and extend that down that gives me the arch and the full window main frame...will try your approach though.

    anyway...doing as I do, and use connect to connect the points to create the angled frame part then copy the edges..delete polys, send to blender and use skin modifier..add decimate and use planar. to reduce the frame divisions.and you got a decent frame work going on, this is much faster than going the route of inkscape as I did, I get completely accurate connections for the angled parts.
    Havent tried yet..I could just skip using edges and keep it polys and send to blender and use wire modifier instead.

    I installed and tried nuArchitecht a bit, but in order to do arched windows the way we need..I think I must be able to use a framework already made and get that in to nugraph library..but I get protest that it can not write to cath ...probably an issue with admin rights or protected folders, by default the path was set to external drive D: which I changed, will look in to that later.

    I might be able to compile all the zipfiles in to one zipfiles and all files organized in to proper folders as suggested and post back here if I am allowed to by Kanzo, may be able to create a branch for all the menus needed as well.

  9. #9
    Founding member raymondtrace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    ...I installed and tried nuArchitecht a bit, but in order to do arched windows the way we need..I think I must be able to use a framework already made and get that in to nugraph library...
    Correct, the nuArchitect library has some limits and would not produce the identical window you proposed. It is just a nice add on to keep in your pocket when one of its features matches what you need.
    LW7.5D, 2015, 2018, 2019 running portably on a USB drive on an Amiga 2500 running Wine.

  10. #10
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raymondtrace View Post
    Correct, the nuArchitect library has some limits and would not produce the identical window you proposed. It is just a nice add on to keep in your pocket when one of its features matches what you need.
    Yup...I have a few more menus from the script to add before I can make a complete branch and pack all that stuff together for future easy installments.

    And yes, I need to solve the write error within the library..if one is supposed to make the most of it with your own profiles to add.

    I am almost there now in my approach to do the arched windows in a very easy and fast way..just in lightwave native, need to repeat the processes a couple of time, not only should it be simple and fast, it must produce proper framework that can be rounded properly as well, I believe it could be a faster process with less steps than kryslin is suggesting.

    the NuArchitect..I forgot to test a window script, I noticed there was fix also that I need to check, but anyway it seems to work with lw 2019.1

  11. #11
    Super Member Kryslin's Avatar
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    I came up with this to develop Shoji screens and lattice work windows for my Japanese style 10 Mat Room, ironically to make my oriental window presets for LWCAD.
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  12. #12
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kryslin View Post
    I came up with this to develop Shoji screens and lattice work windows for my Japanese style 10 Mat Room, ironically to make my oriental window presets for LWCAD.
    If I were to follow your instructed process, collapsing polygons after a bevel would only yield a point in the middle..nothing else.
    Edit..ahh...you beveled outside not inside.

    And by the way, e isnīt extrude...it is extend, so you donīt confuse anyone.

    And z" ? that is redo...You mean merge polys right? +z which is shift-z

    But...yes, after revisiting, your approach may be the fastest.

    The process can be faster perhaps,if you in the order select the polys to merge before you extend the bottom, and you also mirror first afte the merge of poys is done.
    and for further precising, when you bevel..it should be pointed out that the polys should be selected and not beveled unselected though that should mean all is selected, the collapse tool wouldnīt behave the same.

    Thanks Kryslin for giving additional help to make this fast to model.

  13. #13
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    You can also use the capsule tool in z direction, that way you do not have to select arch edges and connect, but questionable if it would be faster since you have to go through other steps such as flatten it with value 0 at z axis, then merge points and unify polys.
    Set segments til 2...you have the advantage of setting the radius correct for what you want from start, as opposed to bevel it in the previous method.

    To sum it up, I would skip my initial approach of Inkscaping it and eps export import to lightwave, I would also probably skip blender import and us wire or skin.
    -Stick to kryslins process or change it a bit and use capsule as I mentioned.

  14. #14
    Registered User Rayek's Avatar
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    How about Blender's built-in addon Archimesh-->Panel Window? Non-destructive arched panel windows, and a good start. Takes halve a minute to create a good base panel window with simple tweaking options. Adding the remaining arch geometry by hand is a matter of minutes.

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  15. #15
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayek View Post
    How about Blender's built-in addon Archimesh-->Panel Window? Non-destructive arched panel windows, and a good start. Takes halve a minute to create a good base panel window with simple tweaking options. Adding the remaining arch geometry by hand is a matter of minutes.

    I did mention that previously in this thread in my post nr 4..but it canīt make that kind of windows...se quote down below..

    And no Rayek, using archimesh to do this and then later add the arch geometry within minutes..that will actually take a longer time than doing it in Lightwave according to the methods Kryslin and I
    went for.




    "Iīm gonna do some blender sessions as well and see whatīs more comfortable to work with, you go the wire tool to adress sections there,
    there is also the archimesh panel windows in blener which can use some arched windows, but donīt think it has this kind of framing to set up.
    One advantage there may be that the rounding resolution is parametrical and can be changed at anytime. "

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