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Thread: Cinema 4D R21 now requires login. Now only Lightwave is left to truly own, I think..

  1. #31
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    Only the Studio version is left after the "rental massacre" of 2019, which has unlimited teamrender nodes.

    It ships with a native renderer and AMD ProRender. For an extra 20$ a month you get another, Redshift. You can still buy the 6 other render engine plugins from other companies.

    I guess the biggest benefit is the large amount of plugins for C4D over LW. If it's worth twice the rent...

  2. #32
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    Old Studio owners seems to be angry with the rental massacre, they basically pay the same annual fee, but get less than they used to get. Maybe rental fits new customers only. Autodesk is scared since their rentals are 1500$ ish, so they made an one-time/one-year indie offer for 250$ on Maya and 3dsMax. The rental wars have started...

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Free4Ever View Post
    Only the Studio version is left after the "rental massacre" of 2019, which has unlimited teamrender nodes.

    It ships with a native renderer and AMD ProRender. For an extra 20$ a month you get another, Redshift. You can still buy the 6 other render engine plugins from other companies.

    I guess the biggest benefit is the large amount of plugins for C4D over LW. If it's worth twice the rent...
    When I priced up C4D a while ago, it came with unlimited render nodes but only if you are using teamrender. If you wanted to use a third party render controller like deadline you had to also buy a licence server which was about another 1k.
    Do you know how they are dealing with that now?

  4. #34
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    Good question for C4D sales/support.

  5. #35
    Lava Lamp Technician 3D Kiwi's Avatar
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    Looks like you have to buy extra render licences from what i can see on their site.

  6. #36
    Explorer souzou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Free4Ever View Post
    Old Studio owners seems to be angry with the rental massacre, they basically pay the same annual fee, but get less than they used to get. Maybe rental fits new customers only. Autodesk is scared since their rentals are 1500$ ish, so they made an one-time/one-year indie offer for 250$ on Maya and 3dsMax. The rental wars have started...
    Seems like you pay more, at least in the UK. C4D Studio annual MSA was £525, Redshift maintenance £205 (total £730). New prices are £660 & £930 with Redshift. Assuming the listed prices are also ex-VAT thats a big difference.

    Only advantage seems to be you can install on as many machines as you like and login/out, rather than being limited to two.
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  7. #37
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    Double post sorry
    Last edited by Marander; 08-01-2019 at 05:49 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Free4Ever View Post
    I guess the biggest benefit is the large amount of plugins for C4D over LW. If it's worth twice the rent...
    It's much more than that.

    If you want a versatile, stable and easy to learn 3D application with a modern UI, probably best scene management, very good built-in Motion Tracker, superb CAD import, support for various VR formats, then C4D is the right choice in my opinion.

    Already without plugins it offers very much with parametric tools like poly reduction, LOD, fracturing, VDB modeling, Takes, powerful spline tools, lots of animation features, autorigger, text, Structure manager, Content Browser, snapping, sculpting, hair, skin, muscle and dynamics, nice modeling tools, vast amount of Noises, Generators, Cloners, Effectors, Modifiers, Fields and much more. What is outstanding is how all of these work together.

    UV, cloth and particles need rework but they are still better than LWs and there are 3rd party options.

    Brilliant plugins are Forester, (plus expansion packs and future landscape tool Rock Engine), X-Particles, PeopleInMotion, Drive!, RealTraffic, IKMax, Anima, Realflow, TFD or the various GSG plugins like Signal and the various Merk and Nitro4D tools. Seamilar is good for simple unwrapping. Biomekk Enhance4D is equal to what IFW Shaders for LW were but Cinema offers already many more noise types then LW out if the box.

    For some type of simulations like realistic car behavior with all types of physical accurate automotive details (not talking of Bullet style dynamics or a simple car rig here), crash impacts or street traffic simulation including all kind of vehicles, complete city layouts, car and traffic signaling or automatic lane changes - there is nothing else available in other 3D applications compared to some of these Cinema plugins as far as I know.

    There's also an architectural plugin bundle Caleidos4D, cheaper and in some parts better then LWCAD and LWCAD itself works also well because it's parametric too. HB Modeling Bundle is a powerful set of modeling addons and there are tons of others.

    All Cinema Plugins work beautifully together like native functions.

    However, if you get Cinema 4D R21 all plugins must be updated and recompiled by their developers first. Something that was not required before R20 for a long time. Another PITA if you want to use the upcoming R21.

    3rd party render engines are implemented very well (Cycles, Corona, Arnold, Octane, Vray and Redshift and more) but some might also not be available immediately for R21.

    Bridges to most other tools work well (Substance, Rizom, 3D Coat etc.).

    Native C4D support in Unreal Engine and Unity.

    The amount of high quality learning material / tutorials for Cinema is endless.

    You just have to live with the online activation for the future versions. If that's ok for you, I find the subscription price very fair.

    However note that the lower subscription prices are to be paid annually upfront, so actually you're renting for a whole year in advance. There is only a $720 annual sub and a $94.99 monthly sub.

    For myself I will stay with R20 and a good selection of plugins and render engines, maybe use the included R21 sometimes but will not invest anymore in Maxon products that use the new licensing.

    More money for user friendly licensed applications / updates like LightWave, Affinity and BlackMagic Design and plugins.
    Last edited by Marander; 08-01-2019 at 08:08 PM.

  9. #39
    I was considering moving over to C4D because they still used some text file license system and get you a decent path to upgrade yearly. Now that they took that all away, i don't know if I want to switch to it anymore. Keep in mind that since the License is now online activated, they can shut you down anytime they want with a policy change. I believe Autodesk stop activating certain old perpetual license. Don't think I would like that to happen to me, feel pretty invasive.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomascheng View Post
    I was considering moving over to C4D because they still used some text file license system and get you a decent path to upgrade yearly. Now that they took that all away, i don't know if I want to switch to it anymore. Keep in mind that since the License is now online activated, they can shut you down anytime they want with a policy change. I believe Autodesk stop activating certain old perpetual license. Don't think I would like that to happen to me, feel pretty invasive.
    Completely agree.

    It just took one Ex-Adobe guy to alianate a large part of the community and scare off some potential new customers as well. Certainly an option of choice for larger studios but not for many smaller ones or hobbyists.

    No wonder the 3 founders sold theirs shares, left the company last year at the same time and mentioned R20 to be their parting present to the users. I'm very glad I bought into C4D some years ago.

  11. #41
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    But if you stop paying, you won't be able to open your files.


    https://forums.cgsociety.org/t/r21-i...ow/2052505/427
    English is not my native language so please be patient.

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  12. #42
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    by the way, Maya Indie is not available in germany

    kievi

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asticles View Post
    But if you stop paying, you won't be able to open your files.


    https://forums.cgsociety.org/t/r21-i...ow/2052505/427
    Yes anything from R21 on is shaky because you depend on their licensing servers.

    A good choice is to get a second hand R20 now with classic serial number licensing in my opinion, if Maxon still offers license transfer (don't know if they still allow that).
    Last edited by Marander; 08-02-2019 at 08:07 AM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    It's much more than that.

    If you want a versatile, stable and easy to learn 3D application with a modern UI, probably best scene management, very good built-in Motion Tracker, superb CAD import, support for various VR formats, then C4D is the right choice in my opinion.

    Already without plugins it offers very much with parametric tools like poly reduction, LOD, fracturing, VDB modeling, Takes, powerful spline tools, lots of animation features, autorigger, text, Structure manager, Content Browser, snapping, sculpting, hair, skin, muscle and dynamics, nice modeling tools, vast amount of Noises, Generators, Cloners, Effectors, Modifiers, Fields and much more. What is outstanding is how all of these work together.

    UV, cloth and particles need rework but they are still better than LWs and there are 3rd party options.

    Brilliant plugins are Forester, (plus expansion packs and future landscape tool Rock Engine), X-Particles, PeopleInMotion, Drive!, RealTraffic, IKMax, Anima, Realflow, TFD or the various GSG plugins like Signal and the various Merk and Nitro4D tools. Seamilar is good for simple unwrapping. Biomekk Enhance4D is equal to what IFW Shaders for LW were but Cinema offers already many more noise types then LW out if the box.

    For some type of simulations like realistic car behavior with all types of physical accurate automotive details (not talking of Bullet style dynamics or a simple car rig here), crash impacts or street traffic simulation including all kind of vehicles, complete city layouts, car and traffic signaling or automatic lane changes - there is nothing else available in other 3D applications compared to some of these Cinema plugins as far as I know.

    There's also an architectural plugin bundle Caleidos4D, cheaper and in some parts better then LWCAD and LWCAD itself works also well because it's parametric too. HB Modeling Bundle is a powerful set of modeling addons and there are tons of others.

    All Cinema Plugins work beautifully together like native functions.

    However, if you get Cinema 4D R21 all plugins must be updated and recompiled by their developers first. Something that was not required before R20 for a long time. Another PITA if you want to use the upcoming R21.

    3rd party render engines are implemented very well (Cycles, Corona, Arnold, Octane, Vray and Redshift and more) but some might also not be available immediately for R21.

    Bridges to most other tools work well (Substance, Rizom, 3D Coat etc.).

    Native C4D support in Unreal Engine and Unity.

    The amount of high quality learning material / tutorials for Cinema is endless.

    You just have to live with the online activation for the future versions. If that's ok for you, I find the subscription price very fair.

    However note that the lower subscription prices are to be paid annually upfront, so actually you're renting for a whole year in advance. There is only a $720 annual sub and a $94.99 monthly sub.

    For myself I will stay with R20 and a good selection of plugins and render engines, maybe use the included R21 sometimes but will not invest anymore in Maxon products that use the new licensing.

    More money for user friendly licensed applications / updates like LightWave, Affinity and BlackMagic Design and plugins.
    Ive always liked C4D over say Modo, but now im not so sure i would switch.

    I think the subscription is over priced, not saying others are so much cheaper but when you compare that the Adobe CC subscription and what you get. I think they have deliberately placed themselves in the center ground, cheaper than Max or Maya but more expensive than ZBrush, LightWave, Modo and of course Blender.

    I do think that 3d software is generally a bit over priced.
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  15. #45
    Super Member Paul_Boland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kievi View Post
    by the way, Maya Indie is not available in germany

    kievi
    Not available in Ireland either.
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