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Thread: LightWave Physical Sun / Sky settings and other render engines

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    I mentioned that earlier in this thread, but I guess you missed it or misunderstood.
    Thanks Prometheus I indeed missed that.

    Difficult to get good render settings and it could be implemented much better. I see no firefly issues in any other render engine.

    Now it's ok with these settings even though some fireflies still occur. I hope Newtek is able to improve that.

  2. #77
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    Prom, if you need one of the other ship models from the free model page, please let me know via PM, I started converting them and can upload to Dropbox if you like.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    nope..Ivīe done that with my first image of the Queen mary, fireflies shows up anyway..but maybe you ment Reflection recursion limit? that will solve a lot of it..but proper lighting will suffer from it.
    No, I was talking about Reflection Limit, have you checked on which AOV are they located?
    English is not my native language so please be patient.

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  4. #79
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMarchant View Post
    Yeah that was an all over fog choice for the scene, the ocean has noticeable facets as i switched off the subdivision. If i had turned it on the render times would have been a lot more for the displacement calculation. The Titanic model is about 1.8 million polys so quite large, to detailed for this scenes needs but i threw it together in 5 minutes.

    It was my understanding or am i wrong that when you choose Backdrop Physical Sky and then chose your scene light, is that not meant to become the light that it uses. Sometimes i find that it does not follow this light.
    As for water surface..I understand, would have looke better with that on..but for render comparison and time saving, not usable.

    As for the light, Yep..I think somethings wrong, sometimes it doesnīt recognize the light at all, and you have to reselect it in the list again, but usually that happens when changing to other lights in a scene like environment lights and then back to the sunlight for editing that light, not when you set it up initially.

    As for fog, be careful about the Global scattering anisotropy/asymmetry...a high level is often better for representing glow around the sun, lower level under 0,5 and you will get more overall fog like that may look a bit too flat, usually I set it to between 0,8-0,95

    And we really should have a weight height control directly..a valu slider beneath asymmetry, now this can probably be set up with nodes, but for UI friendlyness sake and according tothe old lightwave philosophy, make it easy to use and fast..donīt make the software for Mathematicians or engineers to use, they should develop the program for the more common user.
    So while we may get a good description on how to do it with nodes, that node should be wrapped in to the Main UI.

    left image without global scattering, right image with scattering ..but subtle, just an HDR image from freeskies, and it is the environment light that is affecting the scattering..you can set how much it affects global scattering..or turn of affect volumetric scattering completly, Itīs not the main light which in fact is turned of here.


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Queen mary scattering compare.jpg 
Views:	212 
Size:	50.9 KB 
ID:	145594

  5. #80
    Not so newbie member lardbros's Avatar
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    I've gone for a slightly different approach, for ultimate control I guess.

    You can separate out the Sun's light and the Environment's Sun, by turning the intensity of the Sun to 0 in the Environment Plugin, and adding an environment light to the SunLight.
    By splitting them out you can control each aspect of the sun's look, and the sky too. Not an ideal workflow, but it renders pretty clean, can't see any fireflies here.

    Rendered in Full HD in 1m38s, with GI on.

    I've attached the scene if anyone wants to check it out. Hope it's not confusing. (Even though the workflow is a bit weird).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SunSky_Mannequin.png 
Views:	15 
Size:	1.93 MB 
ID:	145596  
    Attached Files Attached Files
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  6. #81
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asticles View Post
    No, I was talking about Reflection Limit, have you checked on which AOV are they located?
    Neither worked anyway, and no..I didnīt check which channel..I know I should, have to get back on that..weird thing is one of the scenes Iīve been refining now..doesnīt seem to showcase firefly at all, but that was without GI.
    If I got the time and remember..I will check and hopefully get back.

  7. #82
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    I ran through the AOV, noticed some of the small fireflies speckles in the diffuse indirect channel, went to GI tab and I discovered my ISBG samples was off..thought I have tried it with on..turning it on removed the speckle fireflies...this time.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by lardbros View Post
    I've gone for a slightly different approach, for ultimate control I guess.
    Wow this is great thanks!

    The render is a bit more grainy but that can be improved easily. I increased AA 2-8 instead of 1-8 and Rays to 32. Also works good with ISBG and optional Background Sampling. Still renders well below 3 min. Adding Denoiser can get rid of the last remaining grain for stills. Fog also works great with it.

    The environment light actually adds nice shadow details, almost like Ambient Occulusion.

    Here's the last test images (without and with Background Sampling).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Mar_SunSky_Test_LW05b.png 
Views:	16 
Size:	1.98 MB 
ID:	145597

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Mar_SunSky_Test_LW05e.png 
Views:	18 
Size:	1.04 MB 
ID:	145598

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Mar_SunSky_Test_LW05g.png 
Views:	17 
Size:	1.08 MB 
ID:	145600

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Mar_SunSky_Test_LW05f.png 
Views:	17 
Size:	1.08 MB 
ID:	145599

    Thanks again, now I'm starting to create a scene based on that light settings.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    As for water surface..I understand, would have looke better with that on..but for render comparison and time saving, not usable.

    As for the light, Yep..I think somethings wrong, sometimes it doesnīt recognize the light at all, and you have to reselect it in the list again, but usually that happens when changing to other lights in a scene like environment lights and then back to the sunlight for editing that light, not when you set it up initially.

    As for fog, be careful about the Global scattering anisotropy/asymmetry...a high level is often better for representing glow around the sun, lower level under 0,5 and you will get more overall fog like that may look a bit too flat, usually I set it to between 0,8-0,95

    And we really should have a weight height control directly..a valu slider beneath asymmetry, now this can probably be set up with nodes, but for UI friendlyness sake and according tothe old lightwave philosophy, make it easy to use and fast..donīt make the software for Mathematicians or engineers to use, they should develop the program for the more common user.
    So while we may get a good description on how to do it with nodes, that node should be wrapped in to the Main UI.

    left image without global scattering, right image with scattering ..but subtle, just an HDR image from freeskies, and it is the environment light that is affecting the scattering..you can set how much it affects global scattering..or turn of affect volumetric scattering completly, Itīs not the main light which in fact is turned of here.


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Queen mary scattering compare.jpg 
Views:	212 
Size:	50.9 KB 
ID:	145594
    Great atmosphere!
    English is not my native language so please be patient.

    Salvador Ureņa
    http://urenasalvador.wixsite.com/portfolio

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    Wow this is great thanks!

    The render is a bit more grainy but that can be improved easily. I increased AA 2-8 instead of 1-8 and Rays to 32. Also works good with ISBG and optional Background Sampling. Still renders well below 3 min. Adding Denoiser can get rid of the last remaining grain for stills. Fog also works great with it.

    The environment light actually adds nice shadow details, almost like Ambient Occulusion.

    Here's the last test images (without and with Background Sampling).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Mar_SunSky_Test_LW05b.png 
Views:	16 
Size:	1.98 MB 
ID:	145597

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Mar_SunSky_Test_LW05e.png 
Views:	18 
Size:	1.04 MB 
ID:	145598

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Mar_SunSky_Test_LW05g.png 
Views:	17 
Size:	1.08 MB 
ID:	145600

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Mar_SunSky_Test_LW05f.png 
Views:	17 
Size:	1.08 MB 
ID:	145599

    Thanks again, now I'm starting to create a scene based on that light settings.
    At this time you should try with a more complex scene.
    English is not my native language so please be patient.

    Salvador Ureņa
    http://urenasalvador.wixsite.com/portfolio

  11. #86
    Super Member JohnMarchant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asticles View Post
    Great atmosphere!
    Could you share the scene, minus the ship of course.
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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMarchant View Post
    Could you share the scene, minus the ship of course.
    You should ask Prometheus
    English is not my native language so please be patient.

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  13. #88
    Super Member JohnMarchant's Avatar
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    Yeah, lol, my boo boo, Prometheus could you share the scene without the ship.
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  14. #89
    Not so newbie member lardbros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    Wow this is great thanks!



    Thanks again, now I'm starting to create a scene based on that light settings.
    No problem. The one other thing I forgot to mention was the SunLight also needs to be set to 'visible to camera' otherwise you won't get a sun in the sky at all, as I've turned it off in the Environment Sky
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  15. #90
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMarchant View Post
    Could you share the scene, minus the ship of course.
    Perhaps later tonight if I can remember it, I just have a few minutes now and must run away to meet som old collegues.

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