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Thread: LightWave Physical Sun / Sky settings and other render engines

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Could you post that scene so we could work on the same scene, lighting etc?

    in the physical sky, you can lower temperature, that will give it a more reddish green tone, but if you want to adjust away the green tone, try change the physical sky scattering color values, left mouse and drag the green, red and blu channel values ..and see how it affects the sky, but you can also just tint the basic set up..there is a tint color control for that.

    As for fireflies..I would need to check your scene.
    As for my scene showing slight greenish, that was by intent and what you often see many times when the sun goes down, though it is often a gradient mix with dark purple, sometime just red goint to light orange..going to cyan (green) almost white then back to cyan blue
    Thank you Prometheus, I will upload a scene (I will replace the human with another object).

    I just did the test also with AMD ProRender, looks basically the same as the C4D one, render time 2:37 minutes. I didn't even consider it before because I see little advantage over the C4D Physical CPU engine, way too slow for a GPU engine.

  2. #32
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    As for fireflies, I think you need to check ISBG Samples and set right amount of samples, also increase reflection samples in the render tab..maybe 10 or so, or simply uncheck glossy surfaces.



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  3. #33
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    I am a bit concerned about the shadow softness in the new sunlight, when you increase size..I thought that should be almost equal to increasing angle size with distant light for softer shadows, but with this new sunlight, I see mostly the shadow darkness go away..and not much of a softness blur at all, not sure if that is by design and accurately to the sunlight? it doesnīt feel right anyway.

    Also to be aware, the color temperature change of the sunlight itself, will only change color of the objects it is hitting, not really the physical sky color..which is handled by the temperature in itīs own tab.

  4. #34
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    OK here's a scene. I replaced the human mesh with a standard figure.

    Attachment 145567

    - - - Updated - - -

    Another issue I have is with the OpenGL Viewport when using the Sun/Sky. It just looks ugly and bad for the eyes in LW. Is there any change in the settings that makes is look better?

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    Note also the Sun Azimuth / Altitude settings in the left hand bottom of the screen.
    Last edited by Marander; 07-21-2019 at 09:32 AM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    As for fireflies, I think you need to check ISBG Samples and set right amount of samples, also increase reflection samples in the render tab..maybe 10 or so, or simply uncheck glossy surfaces.
    Thank you. Note that it's important the roughness is set to 50% (because the noise is more evident than with full glossy settings)
    Last edited by Marander; 07-21-2019 at 09:52 AM.

  6. #36
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    Sorry, just noticed that there was another camera added with the fbx import. The second camera is at the correct angle and set to 1080p.

    Thanks for the ISBG Samples samples, I completely missed that. The samples for Reflection I have set to 16 each before.

    Somehow the scene is now completely blown-out, don't know what changed. Also I have a difficult time adjusting the Sun rotation (Altitute / Azimuth) in LW.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    Sorry, just noticed that there was another camera added with the fbx import. The second camera is at the correct angle and set to 1080p.

    Thanks for the ISBG Samples samples, I completely missed that. The samples for Reflection I have set to 16 each before.

    Somehow the scene is now completely blown-out, don't know what changed. Also I have a difficult time adjusting the Sun rotation (Altitute / Azimuth) in LW.
    blown out can happen with the ISBG samples..may help to change values, I have yet to figure the best settings for it all.

    and another thing to be aware of, as I said, the lightīs temperature will do nothing for the sky color...Unless you actually use volumetric scattering, then the light temperature will actually change the scattering and perceivable as color changes in the sky.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    Thank you. Note that it's important the roughness is set to 50% (because the noise is more evident than with full glossy settings)
    I know.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    I am a bit concerned about the shadow softness in the new sunlight, when you increase size..I thought that should be almost equal to increasing angle size with distant light for softer shadows, but with this new sunlight, I see mostly the shadow darkness go away..and not much of a softness blur at all, not sure if that is by design and accurately to the sunlight? it doesnīt feel right anyway.

    Also to be aware, the color temperature change of the sunlight itself, will only change color of the objects it is hitting, not really the physical sky color..which is handled by the temperature in itīs own tab.
    Thanks, yes the shadow softness should be controllable separately besides the sun size.

  9. #39
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    Turning off glossy reflection of course will get rid of fireflies, but if you need it..and with the new physical sky that is still tricky, you could increase your size of the physical sky, and you can also just set your surface to raytrace without backdrop..it is the backdrop together with the pbr glossy reflections that is troublesome for some fireflies occasionally, no matter if you have enpough ISBG in the GI tab, nor matter if you also have environment light with enough MIS samples.

    As for blown up illuminated surfaces, lowering size of sky will make any object illuminated sharper and stronger and higher size lower intensity and not so sharp, also helps reducing fireflies.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Turning off glossy reflection of course will get rid of fireflies, but if you need it..and with the new physical sky that is still tricky, you could increase your size of the physical sky, and you can also just set your surface to raytrace without backdrop..it is the backdrop together with the pbr glossy reflections that is troublesome for some fireflies occasionally, no matter if you have enpough ISBG in the GI tab, nor matter if you also have environment light with enough MIS samples.

    As for blown up illuminated surfaces, lowering size of sky will make any object illuminated sharper and stronger and higher size lower intensity and not so sharp, also helps reducing fireflies.
    It must be possible to render rough PBR materials without fireflies as most surfaces are not 100% glossy.

    I figured to disable the Background Sampling in den ISBG Samples, then the scene is not blown out, I guess that's also what you mentioned.

    Along with some other Sun / Sky changes I now get a pretty good render, but still too slow and still some fireflies.

    Trying higher settings now. I will post the sample scene afterwards so maybe someone with better LW knowhow can optimize it further.

  11. #41
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    OK here's an updated scene. Still some fireflies and render time about 9 minutes for the figure and 10 minutes for the human body.

    Still some fireflies but the lighting and noise level looks good for me.

    Any idea how to bring down the render to reasonable time (3 minutes for such a simple scene) and kill the remaining fireflies would be very appreciated.

    LW_SunSky03.zip

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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    OK here's an updated scene. Still some fireflies and render time about 9 minutes for the figure and 10 minutes for the human body.

    Still some fireflies but the lighting and noise level looks good for me.

    Any idea how to bring down the render to reasonable time (3 minutes for such a simple scene) and kill the remaining fireflies would be very appreciated.

    LW_SunSky03.zip

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    opened the scene and rendered for the figure it took my machine 14min 28 seconds, but I may have to many webbrowser pages open that reduces it a lot, or you got a faster cpu than I.

    will change some things in your scene and see what gives, noticed very high ISBG samples and adaptive cam sampling very high, I turned it off and used 3 samples only.
    changed ISBG samples to 512 and GI rays to only 20

    turned out to render in 1 min 58 seconds, and as your render on your machine was faster, if you change it like that it should be even faster than 1 min 58 seconds.
    No notable difference in this image, but might be under other circumstances.

    the fireflies more notable in your human scene, I would increase reflection samples, maybe to 20 and I think it should take care of those smaller fireflies.




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  13. #43
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    And for blown out backdrop sampling with ISBG sampling..se these samples, you can adjust the blown out image a bit with increasing default max luminance 1.0 to maybe 1,5-2...that will however also reduce the brightness overall in the sky as well, but it can look better.

    All GI backdrop on with ISBG


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    ISBG off but with backdrop on


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    No Backdrop GI sample and no ISBG...




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    All on, both backdrop and ISBG Samples.. but corrected with max luminance...



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  14. #44
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    probably last test for today, I got to stay disciplined and enter bedtime right tonight, that means within half hour or so.

    Still the new physical sky I believe isnīt optimized with the GI rendering options, fireflies can occur too much in an erratic way, depending on the light source it seems.



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    And sun with volumetric scattering almost backlit...


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  15. #45
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    Thank you Prometheus. Still trying different settings. I figured when I reduce the Despike Threshold to 0.2 there are much less fireflies (but still there).

    Really annoying, no other render engine has this issue. The good side effect is, I now optimize my other render settings like Vray and it looks much better - that gives me good starting points for other scenes.

    Yeah, get some sleep, good idea

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