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Thread: LightWave Physical Sun / Sky settings and other render engines

  1. #16
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    iRay is still part of DAZ but not developed / sold by NVidia anymore afaik.

    Pretty slow I mean compared to other GPU render engines. If you go for GPU rendering you will want an additional GPU.

    Haha still off topic

  2. #17
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    iRay is still part of DAZ but not developed / sold by NVidia anymore afaik.

    Pretty slow I mean compared to other GPU render engines. If you go for GPU rendering you will want an additional GPU.

    Haha still off topic
    Agree to that, and it is the way of things, things never hang loose, they connect and so does any topic to anything else in the universe so our discipline is somewhat the gravity that holds the topics in the thread in itīs trajectory
    Howīs that for staying on topic.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    iRay is still part of DAZ but not developed / sold by NVidia anymore afaik
    Sorry correction: iRay Plugins / Integration in various DCC applications is discontinued. IRay core itself not. It's the MentalRay renderer that is discontinued.

  4. #19
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    Another issue I ran into, generally it is hard to set up godrays with the new sunlight and global scattering and using volumetric clouds, you need to set a delicate balance with scattering weight, light volumetric intensity, global asymmetry etc...and a balance betweeen the Lights volumetric distance to the volume cloud item, and if not properly balanced..it will yield a sharp distance cutoff in the lightrays shadow between the cloud and the global volumetric scattering, I think this is something they need to adress, I will post samples of it....you may get away with it a bit by tweaking it, but I do not think itīs right to behave like that.

    But further more..the balance of having environment light with clouds and volumetric scattering, if you for instance have a full backlit cloud with godrays, the cloud will go very dark, you can adress that with scattering and shadow intensity of the volumetric cloud..but that would destroy the realism once you change lighting, so thus you use an environment light to light the cloud up globally, but then you are facing an issue with it destroying the godrays...that is because the environments light needs to have the same volumetric distance as the main sunlight, correcting that an it should be okay.
    I would like a version though that has an option to match the sunlight volumetric distance, need to feature request this.

    Another tip is to not have the backdrop having to much intensity, or increase max luminence so the sky is a bit darker, that helps pronounce any volumetric effect of lightrays.

    To Note, Lightwave is the only General 3D app that I managed to produce godrays in,/excluding Vue and Terragen..I still have to do my work on that for blender and Houdini, though I think I can do that with less problems in blender than in houdini.

  5. #20
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    huh...I just got a horrible bug showing it seems in one of my scenes with godrays, the scene had no ground item, and as soon as I ad a groundplane or a cube etc, it just destroys the volumetric lighting and kills it..very weird, I can deactivate the item ..but it doesnīt help, once I delete the object the volumetrics is back again.

    Must check this with other scenes first before I can bug report.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    huh...I just got a horrible bug showing it seems in one of my scenes with godrays, the scene had no ground item, and as soon as I ad a groundplane or a cube etc, it just destroys the volumetric lighting and kills it..very weird, I can deactivate the item ..but it doesnīt help, once I delete the object the volumetrics is back again.

    Must check this with other scenes first before I can bug report.
    Ups sounds like a glitch... I might test on the weekend too but have to enjoy the hot summer evening now

  7. #22
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    By the way Prometheus

    - I'm off topic again but devil takes it -

    Have you considered getting Gaea?

    I can really recommend it for landscape generation. I got the Enterprise version when it was in Beta with discount as Geoglyph user. I got this version because it's the only one with full offline license (similar to LW or Cinema). World Machine introduced online activation in the last beta in March and since then there was no new version. Very slow development. My maintenance just expired a few days ago and I'm not going to renew it for now. Gaea in the other hand gets a new version almost every week.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    By the way Prometheus

    - I'm off topic again but devil takes it -

    Have you considered getting Gaea?

    I can really recommend it for landscape generation. I got the Enterprise version when it was in Beta with discount as Geoglyph user. I got this version because it's the only one with full offline license (similar to LW or Cinema). World Machine introduced online activation in the last beta in March and since then there was no new version. Very slow development. My maintenance just expired a few days ago and I'm not going to renew it for now. Gaea in the other hand gets a new version almost every week.
    Will have to research it a bit first, and start by trying the free demo.

    Huh this volumetric bug is killing me, I dare to state it being a bug already...tried new scenes from scratch, itīs something between the new sunlight and volumetric shadows it cast with objects, if I use standard light it isnīt screwing it up.
    So it works with volumetric clouds, but as soon as I add any polgyon geometry, the volumetrics is killed off...bad bad bad.

  9. #24
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    Uhmm...I have to go through this properly, I have previous made scenes that did work with objects, such as the sample below..that is with the new sunlight and global scattering.
    So something may be turned off if setting isnīt right and adding geometry.

    Edit...and the Sk sunmotion for having the lensflare following the sun properly is working again within that scene..what the H??



    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	volumetric sunlight.jpg 
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  10. #25
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    What you need to do to get the sunflare with the new sunlight, you need to have dpont sunsky added after the physical sky, but do not have it active t should not override the physsical sky, but the sunsky sunMotion plugin in the lights motion tab needs it to recognize any rotational motion of the sunlight.

    See image of the sunsky environment being inactive for render, but is needed for the sunsky sunmotion recognition..for lensflares.



    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	matching sunflare with the new sunlight.jpg 
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  11. #26
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    Thanks for the heads up on Gaea Marander, downloaded it some hour ago and installed, installed nicely, and the backdrop realism is a beauty in that previewer, looks great from the start as we speak of the topic.

    had to check a little youtube to see the export route, but simple enough, building it like worldmachine, but itīs faster and you get a higher resolution map to try it out with.
    Looks nice..will have to try the building options a while before I decide upon any purchase.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post

    As for asticles render, the grain is most likely Not resolution, but a result of too low volumetric samples, you may want to raise the Lights volumetric samples from 20-40, especially if you have volumetric clouds as well.
    Could be that the environment light is affecting the volumetrics as well..and you need right samples in such case, you could also turn that off for affecting volumetrics.

    As for lighting, most likely color space thingy, and the environment light as well.
    Yes, it was only a fast image, just to show that to me Lw can give some good sky environment.

    Nice renders Prometheus
    English is not my native language so please be patient.

    Salvador Ureņa
    http://urenasalvador.wixsite.com/portfolio

  13. #28
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    So I tested again, making a simple render with LW Sun / Sky.

    I can get a somehow acceptable Sun / Sky with good lighting in LW but it is not rendarable in a reasonable amount of time and I can't get rid of noise and fireflies.

    Also I don't like the greenish tint I get for the atmosphere towards horizon. Redshift does that similar but not as strong (see below) but there it can easily be changed (maybe in LW too but I didn't see how). Shouldn't the sky get more red'ish towards the horizon?

    To setup the Sun / Sky is not intuitive or efficient in LW (settings all over the place) while in the other renderers it's a one-click operation with one attribute panel. Not to speak of the render settings and the lack of templates or useful default values. Or the lack of useful documentation or tutorials. But if I can set useful settings and save it as LW scene / template that's ok.

    Again, what I like to see is a simple object on a 60km plane, Principled BSDF white material for both with 50% roughness, GI enabled, noise free, daylight, no denoiser used (except Despike for LW)

    Here are my tests (not anywhat scientific, more or less default settings with increased samples for a noise free render). The render settings are just based on my own learning, so they can most likely be optimized further.

    LW 2019.1 - increased GI samples and Diffuse/Reflectance/Refraction/AA samples, Despike enabled(!), over 22 minutes render

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Mar_SunSky_Test_LW01.png 
Views:	28 
Size:	2.05 MB 
ID:	145561

    C4D Physical - rather high sample settings, 3:30 minutes render

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Mar_SunSky_Test_C4D01.png 
Views:	27 
Size:	1.96 MB 
ID:	145562

    C4D Vray - 1:05 minutes render

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Mar_SunSky_Test_Vray_C4D_01.png 
Views:	24 
Size:	2.32 MB 
ID:	145564

    C4D Redshift - 0:15 minutes render

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Mar_SunSky_Test_RS_C4D_01.png 
Views:	22 
Size:	1.66 MB 
ID:	145563

    Why is LW so slow and still producing so much noise and fireflies? Has anyone an idea how to render a simple object with LW, FullHD, noise free with daylight with default Sun/Sky, Principled BSDF with 50% rough surface, without denoiser (because that is not suitable in all situations and other engines don't require this), no environment / fog? Maybe I'm just missing a setting somewhere?

    To setup such a simple scene takes 5 minutes max, including render settings. Actually including the finished render.

    Prometheus, your atmosphere looks nice (but also has this slight greenish tint), but I'm really looking for a standard daylight scene without dpont or other plugins required.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Marander; 07-21-2019 at 08:24 AM.

  14. #29
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    https://docs.lightwave3d.com/lw2019/...ironment-light seriously? (I guess it was started but never finished)

    I know there is this, but also rather thin:

    https://docs.lightwave3d.com/lw2019/...t-hosek-wilkie
    Last edited by Marander; 07-21-2019 at 08:29 AM.

  15. #30
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    So I tested again, making a simple render with LW Sun / Sky.

    I can get a somehow acceptable Sun / Sky with good lighting in LW but it is not rendarable in a reasonable amount of time and I can't get rid of noise and fireflies.

    Also I don't like the greenish tint I get for the atmosphere towards horizon. Redshift does that similar but not as strong (see below) but there it can easily be changed (maybe in LW too but I didn't see how). Shouldn't the sky get more red'ish towards the horizon?

    To setup the Sun / Sky is not intuitive or efficient in LW (settings all over the place) while in the other renderers it's a one-click operation with one attribute panel. Not to speak of the render settings and the lack of templates or useful default values. Or the lack of useful documentation or tutorials. But if I can set useful settings and save it as LW scene / template that's ok.

    Again, what I like to see is a simple object on a 60km plane, Principled BSDF white material for both with 50% roughness, GI enabled, noise free, daylight, no denoiser used (except Despike for LW)

    Here are my tests (not anywhat scientific, more or less default settings with increased samples for a noise free render). The render settings are just based on my own learning, so they can most likely be optimized further.

    LW 2019.1 - increased GI samples and Diffuse/Reflectance/Refraction/AA samples, Despike enabled(!), over 22 minutes render

    ]

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Mar_SunSky_Test_LW01.png 
Views:	28 
Size:	2.05 MB 
ID:	145561

    C4D Physical - rather high sample settings, 3:30 minutes render

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Mar_SunSky_Test_C4D01.png 
Views:	27 
Size:	1.96 MB 
ID:	145562

    C4D Vray - 1:05 minutes render

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Mar_SunSky_Test_Vray_C4D_01.png 
Views:	24 
Size:	2.32 MB 
ID:	145564

    C4D Redshift - 0:15 minutes render

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Mar_SunSky_Test_RS_C4D_01.png 
Views:	22 
Size:	1.66 MB 
ID:	145563

    Why is LW so slow and still producing so much noise and fireflies? Has anyone an idea how to render a simple object with LW, FullHD, noise free with daylight with default Sun/Sky, Principled BSDF with 50% rough surface, without denoiser (because that is not suitable in all situations and other engines don't require this), no environment / fog? Maybe I'm just missing a setting somewhere?

    To setup such a simple scene takes 5 minutes max, including render settings. Actually including the finished render.

    Prometheus, your atmosphere looks nice (but also has this slight greenish tint), but I'm really looking for a standard daylight scene without dpont or other plugins required.

    Thanks!

    Could you post that scene so we could work on the same scene, lighting etc?

    in the physical sky, you can lower temperature, that will give it a more reddish green tone, but if you want to adjust away the green tone, try change the physical sky scattering color values, left mouse and drag the green, red and blu channel values ..and see how it affects the sky, but you can also just tint the basic set up..there is a tint color control for that.

    As for fireflies..I would need to check your scene.
    As for my scene showing slight greenish, that was by intent and what you often see many times when the sun goes down, though it is often a gradient mix with dark purple, sometime just red goint to light orange..going to cyan (green) almost white then back to cyan blue

    I also need to know resolution of your image, and camera samples, so best if you post the scene.

    Real life sample here in stockholm almost at midnight June the 27th...

    [IMG]

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Photo 2019-06-27 almost midnight.jpg 
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ID:	145565

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