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Thread: What is LightWave when you really think about it?

  1. #1
    Registered User gdkeast's Avatar
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    What is LightWave when you really think about it?

    When I hear someone speaking negatively about LightWave, besides annoying me, it starts me thinking about what LightWave really is, and when I do I realize LW is not a single thing, but rather a base platform for adding many other tools that work or can work relatively well together. So, in the end, you end up with something much greater than what LW is by itself.

    So when someone is speaking negatively about LW, it is not like they are criticizing a single thing, but many things at once, and so, at least for me, the argument becomes overgeneralized and begins to fall apart, especially when LW can be customized to be nearly anything you want it to be.

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  2. #2

    true,

    MetaMesh, Rhiggit, IKB, LWCad is a Huge deal to me. They are a Must in My workflow.

    so even though B is Fantastic, for the workflow i use LW is much better.

    however, for others, i Absolutely understand that B can be of preference.


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    Super Member OlaHaldor's Avatar
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    LWCAD, TFD and Octane. Hands down the most interesting bits for me.
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    Super Member JohnMarchant's Avatar
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    Agreed, TFD, Octane, LWCad, 3DPowers, RHiggit, Bevel ++ are musts for me. The one thing that i really hate in Modeler is the destructive nature of Booleans, Bevels and Rounder, previous mentioned plugins cover some of those gaps, but i hope LWG3D will sort out modelers destructiveness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    true,

    MetaMesh, Rhiggit, IKB, LWCad is a Huge deal to me. They are a Must in My workflow.

    so even though B is Fantastic, for the workflow i use LW is much better.

    however, for others, i Absolutely understand that B can be of preference.


    B? oh you mean Blender, the scottish app

  6. #6
    Super Member Kryslin's Avatar
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    Lightwave to me is a tool box of basic tools that can get many jobs done. It's kind of like my woodworking shop - I have all the basic tools, (Saw, Hammer, Drill, Screwdrivers, Wrenches, Chisels, Planes, Paintbrushes, Glue) and between them, you can get a project done, though it will be much harder. So, like the workshop, you add tools.

    LWCAD and 3rdPowers for modeling, DPont for surfacing, RHiggit for rigging, ODTools for general usefulness, and like any workshop, all sorts of little shop made tools and jigs for specific uses that have come up (It's why I wrote all those freakin' lScripts that deal with FFX based things, and a few other experiments that produces some surprising results).

    I often use other apps to supplement the toolbox - Rhino3D and 3DCoat, because they do things LW doesn't (or doesn't do well). I haven't gotten into fluid simulations yet, though that will probably happen at some point, at which point, I'll add Blender into the mix. These are like adding a table saw, lathe, router, and drill press to the wood shop, certain types of work become easier with the right tools.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdkeast View Post
    LW can be customized to be nearly anything you want it to be.
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    Sorry but no.

    It lacks a modern architecture, a fast geometry engine / viewport and flexible user interface and unification for that.

    Compared to other 3d applications and plugins, LW including LWCAD, 3rd Powers, OD Tools, Rhiggit Pro, TFD and more (I have them all), is all outdated tech.

    What LW is for me is a fun 3d tool for retro-computing, experimental stuff and a little bit of VFX (which I end up doing in other apps due to LW's limitations in most cases).

    Sorry to be negative (and rain on your parade as S. Bowie will probably say) but I can't stand such false statements. There are 3D applications where it applies definitively but certainly that's not the case with LightWave.

  8. #8
    Super Member JohnMarchant's Avatar
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    So the fact that Jaasha has ported TFD to a few platforms and that LWCad is ported to LW, Max and C4D means that they both wasted their time, better tell Viktor that. Whilst i agree LW Modeler really needs some love and less destruction it is still capable, its hardly rock bottom. Dave Ridden seems to make a healthy living out of using LW, even with its short comings which all software has.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMarchant View Post
    Agreed, TFD, Octane, LWCad, 3DPowers, RHiggit, Bevel ++ are musts for me. The one thing that i really hate in Modeler is the destructive nature of Booleans, Bevels and Rounder, previous mentioned plugins cover some of those gaps, but i hope LWG3D will sort out modelers destructiveness.
    Yes the destructive workflow is one limitation using LightWave and I don't see how the mentioned addons can cover those gaps since they are also destructive (except the 3rd Power ones for Layout, which is the right way to go imho). Some of them offer a better viewport feedback like 3rd Powers Metamesh, Boolean+, LWCAD or the "new" 2018 Modeler tools but nevertheless they are still destructive tools, not parametric.

    From Modeler, geometry need to be brought over to Layout with all it's limitations for splines, bones / rigs, points, selection sets, fracture, bevels etc.

    LWCAD in other applications is parametric and works exactly how it should, all values can be modified anytime later. It also works together as parametric object with all other applications' functions or 3rd party plugins. That's just one example of LW's architecture that hasn't changed since last millennium (even if the previous LW3DG promised it would for LWNext).

    TFD and LWCAD both work much better in the other app (more stable, more intuitive, parametric, additional features). I can directly compare as I have them for both applications. But even then, there are far better plugins for most of their functionality nowadays and both didn't get feature updates for a long time. 3rd Powers or OD Tools are simply not needed in other applications.
    Last edited by Marander; 05-27-2019 at 09:38 AM.

  10. #10
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdkeast View Post
    When I hear someone speaking negatively about LightWave, besides annoying me, it starts me thinking about what LightWave really is, and when I do I realize LW is not a single thing, but rather a base platform for adding many other tools that work or can work relatively well together. So, in the end, you end up with something much greater than what LW is by itself.

    So when someone is speaking negatively about LW, it is not like they are criticizing a single thing, but many things at once, and so, at least for me, the argument becomes overgeneralized and begins to fall apart, especially when LW can be customized to be nearly anything you want it to be.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Honestly from my perspective, that whole incitament places a picture in my mind of Lightwave being a dry bread..but you have butter to put on it to swallow it all, meaning Lightwave as the dry bread and all addons being the butter.
    There are many other software out that there can do the same, many of them may be a bit more expensive..but also carry more out of the box tools.
    when it comes to cheaps software with a decent toolset from scratch, maybe there´s only one software that can match in prize..and even be NO1 in pricing model at that too....and it also has a lot of addons to build the software more complete.

    Other software (the big guys) seem to have more out of the box tools and advanced tool, that comes at a price but may also bring those needed tool more tightly intergrated with development, release schedules and also syncronizing those tools with the main app much better than we may have with Lightwave third party tools(if we choose to see them as different as the main app that is)
    One reference I would make here is TurbulenceFD...which I personally feel isn´t matching the Lightwave development very well...it should have been updated a few weeks after the very first 2018 release with a proper PBR volumetric shader.

    The fact that you can add on what you want in many cases, doesn´t deminish the competition that can do the same, and it doesn´t overcome the shortcomings of Lightwave´s structural problems as mentioned by others (modeling non destructive.

    What is Lightwave?
    is it a 3d software unlike no other? Probably yes..and with emphasis on that it doesn´t do things like other 3D general software mostly do by todays standard..and that is with reference to not so good ways of doing it in my eyes.
    I sincerely hope it someday can go from negative "software unlike no other" to a neutral.."software like the other" and then finally back again to a "software like no other" but with positive attributes to it all...and that takes first catching up to the middle phase, and then push it beyond and being faster, more complete...or just being innovative like no other to be in there for the competition.

  11. #11

    but nevertheless they are still destructive tools, not parametric.
    i don't need parametric. sure, it would be very nice to have, but to claim it is an Absolute Must is wrong.

    it is not an Absolute for me, and some other users don't find it crucial for their workflow.

    though sure, for some it is vital.


    The fact that you can add on what you want in many cases, doesn't diminish the competition that can do the same, and it doesn't overcome the shortcomings of LightWave's structural problems as mentioned by others (modeling non destructive).
    true, however, i am talking about Here and Now, not what other applications might/will add in the future.

    so if App X doesn't have that feature Now, then i might as well through that App overboard if it doesn't apply to my workflow.



    there are 20+ features i wish for LightWave to have, however, if the 10+ crucial features that i personally really need isn't present in B... so be it.

    so, for some LW will be the best choice, for others B will be the best choice.

    maybe i'll switch to another main app soon, but for my workflow/need, no other apps are better suited, as of now.

    ---------

    if people want to argue that for many people, the situation is otherwise, sure be my guest.
    but to claim that App X is better to use than LW no matter what, sorry, i just find that a bit ridiculous.

    *this last reply is a general remark, not aimed at one specific person.
    Last edited by erikals; 05-27-2019 at 10:33 AM.
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    Super Member JohnMarchant's Avatar
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    TFD and LWCAD both work much better in the other app (more stable, more intuitive, parametric, additional features). I can directly compare as I have them for both applications. But even then, there are far better plugins for most of their functionality nowadays and both didn't get feature updates for a long time. 3rd Powers or OD Tools are simply not needed in other applications.[/QUOTE]

    There have been updates in the last 6 months for Win and Mac TFD and Jaasha is working on TFD 2. Viktor has already said and posted a video on two updates for this year on LWCad 2018, which come with new features, before finishing and releasing LWCad 2020.

    Yes we are all aware of modelers and LW shortcomings, which is why we all have other software in our arsenal as do most people whatever is their primary App. Maya, Max and many others have a plethora of plugins and even some that do what can be done natively in those Apps, why, to cover shortcomings or the way the native tool has it is implemented.

    I do hope that one day LW will catch up and that modeler will get the love it needs, however i have other tools for nondestructive work, whilst i would love to do it all in LW, its just not possible in some circumstances, but thats the same for everyone. You can sculpt in Blender, and even in LW, but ZBrush is better. Nondestructive Booleans can be done in LW but frankly its a PITA, Blender is so much better for hard surface modeling. I hope one day LW will be better but i will wait and see and if not then cest la vie, im covered elsewhere.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    i don't need parametric. sure, it would be very nice to have, but to claim it is an Absolute Must is wrong.
    Not saying it's a must and in same cases poly model operations can be just fine or a better approach.

    But if you need it and it's there (along with poly modeling features of course) and offers a whole new range of possibilities and efficiency.

    Unfortunately even basic poly tools in LW (Translation, Clone, Knife, Extrude, Rounder, BandSaw, Julienne etc) are all very limited and slow. And that is not just modeling, the same can even be said about most new 2019 features (OpenVDB or Metamorphic for example).

    Beside all it's limitations, most disappointing is LW2019 viewport performance to me.

    To me the the original posters' statement "LW can be customized to be nearly anything you want it to be" is completely wrong.

    Other applications can be made to look and work like LW if that is required. LW is what it is, no matter how many hundred plugins are added to it.

  14. #14
    Almost newbie Cageman's Avatar
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    I always try to use LW for what it is very good at, or, in my oppinion, where I think I can be very proficient with it and get very good results in as short time as possible.

    That is LW for me, or any other app, if that matters.
    Last edited by Cageman; 05-27-2019 at 12:59 PM.
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  15. #15

    Marander, like i said,
    there are 20+ features i wish for LightWave to have, however, if the 10+ crucial features that i personally Absolutely need isn't present in B... so be it.
    with all the glorious features Application X has, it doesn't help me much if those features can't boost My Workflow and Needed Features the way LightWave does.

    for me it would be like using a hammer and a saw, (AppX) when what i really need for the job is a screwdriver. (AppLW)

    or like playing Eminem for my father when what he really wants to hear is La Cucaracha
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0nQMgaJibc


    Different artists, Different needs.

    Last edited by erikals; 05-27-2019 at 02:19 PM.
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