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Thread: What is LightWave when you really think about it?

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by gdkeast View Post
    I do I realize LW is not a single thing, but rather a base platform for adding many other tools that work or can work relatively well together. So, in the end, you end up with something much greater than what LW is by itself.

    Isn't that every other app out there in existance? Everything is made better due to 3rd party contributions. On the customizable thing... well LW has to be the least customizable app out there.

    Unfortunately, LW's 3rd party ecosystem has been shrinking and not growing. The people who do contribute do it because they're personally invested in LW itself, not because its a profitable venture. I see even Oliver (OD tools) has pretty much converted to Houdini. The thing about it is, LW NEEDS third party input to be viable while other apps aren't quite so heavily dependent on them. LWCAD today keeps people in modeler much like Worley's Fprime kept people rendering in LW 10 years ago.

  2. #17

    I see even Oliver (OD tools) has pretty much converted to Houdini.
    this is generalizing. it might fit his workflow, i hardly think Oliver thinks everyone should drop the LightWave ball.

    Unfortunately, LW's 3rd party ecosystem has been shrinking and not growing.
    yes, and it might continue to do so, quite possibly.


    i think the original thread starters point was > Hey, too much negativity around here, Let's Lighten Up a bit.
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  3. #18
    Almost newbie Cageman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    Isn't that every other app out there in existance? Everything is made better due to 3rd party contributions. On the customizable thing... well LW has to be the least customizable app out there.

    Unfortunately, LW's 3rd party ecosystem has been shrinking and not growing. The people who do contribute do it because they're personally invested in LW itself, not because its a profitable venture. I see even Oliver (OD tools) has pretty much converted to Houdini. The thing about it is, LW NEEDS third party input to be viable while other apps aren't quite so heavily dependent on them. LWCAD today keeps people in modeler much like Worley's Fprime kept people rendering in LW 10 years ago.
    You would be surprised at how many studios are using Houdini as a Plugin for LW and vice versa.
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  4. #19
    I wouldn't be surprised at all, people use many apps these days. And Houdini isn't exactly the most direct when it comes to traditional modeling so I can understand someone might use modeler, it's cheap and fine for simple direct modeling. But really these days, the modeling options are many and Blender is really king of the inexpensive yet powerful modeling options (and to the point of this thread has a thriving third party ecosystem)
    And Erik I didn't say anything about Oliver suggesting anyone should do anything different, he has always suggested people use what works for them, I was only saying that he himself has discovered just how elegant Houdini is and seems.to have converted. What that means for future OD tools I don't have a clue but I think it's concerning when you see people like Chris Jones and Massimo movie to Blender and Oliver going to Houdini. Biggest loss since William Vaughan.

  5. #20
    Super Member Chris S. (Fez)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    Oliver going to Houdini. Biggest loss since William Vaughan.
    Ouch. I have no idea if this is true or not but Oliver is still a member of this forum and still seemingly making and marketing OD Tools for LW. If true, I hope he will speak for himself. Perhaps he already has elsewhere.

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris S. (Fez) View Post
    Ouch. I have no idea if this is true or not but Oliver is still a member of this forum and still seemingly making and marketing OD Tools for LW. If true, I hope he will speak for himself. Perhaps he already has elsewhere.
    Again, I have no idea what it means for OD tools, could mean nothing. I can't imagine he'll stop supporting it either way. In my opinion, his OD toolset is probably the best thing to happen to LW in a long time, he has added a lot of much needed functionality into LW. If I had decided to upgrade to the last few versions of LW, it would have been for his additions.

  7. #22
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    I did in fact buy in to the latest 2019 release it because it still has value for me..but for me the value may be declining rapidly..and it may be one of the last upgrades I do for Lightwave.
    Some of the new vdb tools made it enough interesting..though they need to work on the speed and implementation of some of it still.

    For me the development and features and corrections of limitiations is still taking too long time before implementation is done, so thus the skepticism and that means I currently try to learn other stuff, but it still has some tuff I love to do...which actually
    is hard to do in a fast way with other software.

    Fundamental flaws and limits for me is the lack of new modeling tools..or correction of older ones such as bevel rounding, better text tools non destructively, The undo system(although they started a process on that) and the UI system, those are probably the fundamental stuff and
    after that as second comes the slow CPU render VS what it could be if rendered with GPU, and the hair system is sort of a failure for me when it comes to renderspeed, probably need octane for a decent rendertime.

    third..Lack of native fluids and good emitter connection options with weight paint is another important thing for me, and lack of sculpting(although they started a process with metasculpt implemented)

    And with this I may have commented in a way that sounds negative, but I donīt focus on how that comes through when it in fact is pure facts that limits Lightwave to become more competitional, I rather see it as constructive criticism.

  8. #23
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  9. #24

    for the once of you who are cough in the middle, do what i do... App1... App2...




    looks like this thread is turning into a clone... ?
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    Last edited by erikals; 05-28-2019 at 02:49 AM.
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  10. #25
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    things are regressing to the silence period, prolly cos its gone quiet again.

  11. #26
    Super Member JohnMarchant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris S. (Fez) View Post
    Ouch. I have no idea if this is true or not but Oliver is still a member of this forum and still seemingly making and marketing OD Tools for LW. If true, I hope he will speak for himself. Perhaps he already has elsewhere.
    I don't think Oliver has gone to Houdini at all, he is just making practical business decisions and who can blame him. Viktor ports LWCad to Max and C4D does not mean he does not make it for LW as well.

    If having another revenue stream means we still get updates for LW then good. Besides Olivers tools for Houdini are mostly about LW/Houdini integration.
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  12. #27
    Founding member raymondtrace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    ...I see even Oliver (OD tools) has pretty much converted to Houdini...
    I don't think you see. Chat with him on the discord channel. Learn something.
    Last edited by raymondtrace; 05-28-2019 at 06:54 AM.
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  13. #28
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    Apart from that I do not have syflex, there is nothing in that thread that can help me get faster rendertimes, I already practice whatever was in there for lower rendertimes..but the crucial factor isnīt really final render,
    but how much I can get as close to instant feedback as possible...that means fast VPR feedback and for me it is of crucial artistic freedom to get such feedback, OpenGL isnīt enough.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised at all, people use many apps these days. And Houdini isn't exactly the most direct when it comes to traditional modeling so I can understand someone might use modeler, it's cheap and fine for simple direct modeling. But really these days, the modeling options are many and Blender is really king of the inexpensive yet powerful modeling options (and to the point of this thread has a thriving third party ecosystem)
    And Erik I didn't say anything about Oliver suggesting anyone should do anything different, he has always suggested people use what works for them, I was only saying that he himself has discovered just how elegant Houdini is and seems.to have converted. What that means for future OD tools I don't have a clue but I think it's concerning when you see people like Chris Jones and Massimo movie to Blender and Oliver going to Houdini. Biggest loss since William Vaughan.
    I'm not sure what you mean by "simple, direct modeling".

    It's like you are trying to reduce Modeler's capabilities to the level of an app you would find for a mobile phone or something.... when anyone who has used LW knows that is inaccurate; the evidence is in the work.

    I would absolutely agree that Blender is the king in the most critical area you mention; it's hard to get more affordable than free.

  15. #30
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPSchmidt View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean by "simple, direct modeling".

    It's like you are trying to reduce Modeler's capabilities to the level of an app you would find for a mobile phone or something.... when anyone who has used LW knows that is inaccurate; the evidence is in the work.

    I would absolutely agree that Blender is the king in the most critical area you mention; it's hard to get more affordable than free.
    For me..Lightwave feels more easier and simpler to select things..in various modes by either spacebar switch to select polygons, vertices, edges..or simply click on the buttons which says exactly what it is, try that in Houdini..which has a completely different way of selecting things and it is buried much deeper to acess in my opinion, standard copy and paste in lightwave is simple but rules by the ctrl c and v, you do not even get that in blender modeling.

    So the "direct approach" is there in my opinion, while other modelers make it a bit more awkward and not so direct..that is the positives, while it lacks in many many other areas in modeling.

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