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Thread: Gaea Terrains, and high polygon displacements

  1. #1
    May the sauce be with you starbase1's Avatar
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    Gaea Terrains, and high polygon displacements

    Hi All,
    I've been using the new Gaea terrain tool with Lightwave, and I'm rather impressed. It generated high bit depth maps or OBJ files, and the Erosion options are wonderfully realistic - it can make separate maps of things like alluvial features, areas eroded, and where the deposits end up, which also help with texturing.

    Sample attached.



    However I am hitting the limits of memory using the maps as a displacement on a subdiv surface, roughly 4k x 4k maps and 16 million polygons.

    (LW 2019 and LW 11.6 no significant difference I can see...)

    Is there a way, short of an expensive memory upgrade, of handling more?

    Test animation here:
    https://vimeo.com/337743742


    Thanks,
    Nick
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    www.Digitawn.co.uk rustythe1's Avatar
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    instead of using SUBd plane, try using a null with flat plane geometry (add null, properties, primitive, change primitive type to shape, change shape to plane,) its slower to render but has no division limit so will be equal to the image but 0 geometry
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    Super Member XswampyX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustythe1 View Post
    instead of using SUBd plane, try using a null with flat plane geometry (add null, properties, primitive, change primitive type to shape, change shape to plane,) its slower to render but has no division limit so will be equal to the image but 0 geometry
    Like so.

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  4. #4
    May the sauce be with you starbase1's Avatar
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    Thanks, will give that a go - sounds like a 2019 thing, yes? Not really got to grips with that yet.

    In the meantime, I just finished a short animation of that terrestrial crater, and I'm rather happy with the result! Love the way you can see the debris from the erosion washed towards the middle...

    https://vimeo.com/338341972

    Nick
    Specialist subjects: Unflown space projects, and the space program of the Soviet Union.

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    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XswampyX View Post
    Like so.

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    51m51s for a single 1920x960 frame? Yikes, that's quite painful. What's the resolution (pixel & color res) of the maps used, and for what?
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2019.1.5 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),64GB RAM, NV 980ti

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    May the sauce be with you starbase1's Avatar
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    All those soft reflections won't be helping though...
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    www.Digitawn.co.uk rustythe1's Avatar
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    doesn't have to be too slow to render, I did this back in the early days of 2018, the ground is a displaced null and the image only took 20 mins at 7680x2160(and that was on my older 5960!), even has lots of transparency going on in the poly tunnels, on top of that there is probably about 12 million or so polys going on as I didn't bother optimising anything
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    Super Member XswampyX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustythe1 View Post
    doesn't have to be too slow to render, I did this back in the early days of 2018, the ground is a displaced null and the image only took 20 mins at 7680x2160(and that was on my older 5960!), even has lots of transparency going on in the poly tunnels, on top of that there is probably about 12 million or so polys going on as I didn't bother optimising anything
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Of course. I didn't do a quick render to show how quick it was. I think my displacement amount was too large so it created a lot of extra geometry.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here's the scene if anybody can get it lower... ?

    Island.zip

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    Quote Originally Posted by rustythe1 View Post
    doesn't have to be too slow to render, I did this back in the early days of 2018, the ground is a displaced null and the image only took 20 mins at 7680x2160(and that was on my older 5960!), even has lots of transparency going on in the poly tunnels, on top of that there is probably about 12 million or so polys going on as I didn't bother optimising anything
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Very nice!

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    Quote Originally Posted by starbase1 View Post
    Thanks, will give that a go - sounds like a 2019 thing, yes? Not really got to grips with that yet.

    In the meantime, I just finished a short animation of that terrestrial crater, and I'm rather happy with the result! Love the way you can see the debris from the erosion washed towards the middle...

    https://vimeo.com/338341972

    Nick
    Looking great!

    I enjoy using Gaea too. The primitives in LW2018 / 2019 render with great detail but I would prefer having visible object deformation with sub poly displacement in order to align / place objects or characters on it or having a viewport representation of the displaced plane. But for background terrain renders it works well.

    Another option could be to use the exported OBJ file and add procedural normal maps in the LW material for close up details.

  11. #11
    May the sauce be with you starbase1's Avatar
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    Yes, I like the way you can feed in rough shapes, and use erosion node to make them really natural looking..
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  12. #12
    May the sauce be with you starbase1's Avatar
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    OK, waking up an old thread...

    Trying again with LW 2019, and Null objects taking displacement maps. It works! I'm using an 8k x 8k map, and it handles it just fine.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    But I don't understand the knobs and buttons... In particular what I can do to improve render times, and what the accuracy setting does....

    Lower values take longer, so I guess it's some kind of an error margin. When I increase it though, the geometry stays the same, but some gaps appear in distant bits of the landscape! A shame as increasing it does wonders for the render times. What exactly is it doing?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The other odd thing I notice is that the texture doesn't seem to respond to the smoothing angle in the surface settings.

    Anyone got any pointers to getting the most out of this? My target is to get a 4k frame out in 20 minutes or less, with simple lighting, so I can animate...
    Specialist subjects: Unflown space projects, and the space program of the Soviet Union.

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  13. #13
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    I think the shape primitive is interesting with what it can do in infinite detail ( if using procedurals) but the slowness of the rendering has put me off using it really.
    Maybe they someday may be able to improve it..currently I think it is too darn slow to use.

    The shape primitive brings my thoughts to Ogo Taiki in surface mode, you could instead of a single null with limited size, use a global mode covering the complete earth and have infinite detail, but ogo taiki sort of failed since it was too slow to render as well..especially this volume procedural global infinite layers...and as well as the time it took to render good quality in clouds.
    Had it been 10-20 times faster..this plugin would most likely have been some of the number one plugins still for Lightwave..or maybe even implemented as native environment tools inside of Lightwave.

    Then again..we are not progressing by lingering on to outdated stuff though just a reminder of making stuff that is practicly useful in speed, and also remembering how sweet things could be if there was a thing called infinite layering of terrain and cloud volumetrics.


  14. #14
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starbase1 View Post

    The other odd thing I notice is that the texture doesn't seem to respond to the smoothing angle in the surface settings.
    textures doesnīt respond at all to any smoothing angle for starters, not even with polygon objects, itīs the shading of the material itself that affects smoothing angles of polygons, not any texture.
    The shape item has no polygons, thus any smoothing will not be applyable.

  15. #15
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starbase1 View Post
    The other odd thing I notice is that the texture doesn't seem to respond to the smoothing angle in the surface settings.
    What did you expect that setting to smooth?

    Remember, there's no real geometry involved with that approach, it's all "temp tesselation/geometry" derived from the texturing.
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2019.1.5 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),64GB RAM, NV 980ti

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