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Thread: triple Edge Blending using TC1 and Christie Twist

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb triple Edge Blending using TC1 and Christie Twist

    Hi there,
    I'm requesting a bit of help for an incoming show.

    Here is the list of the sources :
    • 5 Cam sources (3 NDIHX Panasonic, 1 SPARK Pro, 1 direct SDI input)
    • several machines and powerpoint inputs, all via NDI
    • some 4600 x 1080 background images
    • Movies in the DDR
    • Titling via DATALINK and Kane's Titler (which work seamlessly, great job Kane !)


    And there are the outputs wanted :
    • 3 HD 20K-J Christie with Twist cards (to do the edge blending) with 3G SDI inputs (and all the standard ones)
    • 1 pair of 55 inches monitors for confidence
    • 1 Streaming mix (using Livestream Studio In exemple) including cameras mixing via NDI
    • 1 Record of the camera mixing


    For the inputs everything is fine, but for the outputs, it's bit tricky :
    I need to send 3 x 1080P signals, like this, including the overlapping :
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I can do this using M/E 4 as the global wide screen mix and, using m/e re-entry, I can zoom in each zones, then output it via the 3 other mix buses ( 1, 2, 3) : picture
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Problem :
    if I make it on a 1080P session : the re-entry will be destructive ? if so, the image might be a 640p on each mix (1920/3) : not possible on a 16 meters wide screen
    If I try with an UHD session, the resolution will be twice better, acceptable, but I loose 3 mix outputs : not even possible.

    I'd like, for latency reasons and to be economically competitive, to use only my TC-1 and NC1 iO to try to go through this.

    They were, on the previous shows, using a Sony video mixer for camera, and a Barco Encore 2 for the display

    Any ideas dear professionals ?

    Thanks for reading, do not hesitate to shake the frog eater I am if my English isn't clear enough
    TriCaster TC-1
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  2. #2
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    As you already guessed, if you combine and crop 3 images in the M/E you have lost all your quality. There is no loss from the re-entrant ME itself, but rather the cropping of the images does the damage.

    As the projectors will do the edge cropping and combine 3 sources into one wide image, why not use 3 SDI outputs from the rear of TC1 and let the projectors do the work?

    I don't know the workflow of how you need to switch the sources in TriCaster, but I can imagine that perhaps creating a MACRO that will simultaneously switch multiple M/Es (that are each set to a MIX output as SDI) might be part of the solution?

    Thanks

    Jeff
    Jeff Pulera
    Streaming Broadcast Solutions - Newtek Elite

    TriCasters: Mini with AE, TC1
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  3. #3
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    Hi Jeff,
    Yes that's what I think I'll try.
    However, I need to be able to move the windows into the wide image, with comps for exemple.
    What about a part of a window having to move from one projector to the other ? I suppose that doing it with macros will be too tricky.

    I now the destructive cropping is my problem here.

    Here is a picture of the wide screen :
    Click image for larger version. 

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    On the left some informations, center movies / live camera feed / on the right powerpoint.

    It'll have to move from on part of the screen to another.

    I also have An atem if it might help, but the latency will be +2 frames. Not wanted.

    I maybe expect a bit too much of the magical TC1
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  4. #4
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    Take the ultra-wide still images and break them into 3 separate 1920x1080 images. One into each M/E then each M/E is routed to an Output MIX and each MIX/SDI routed to the projectors to stitch them back together at full quality.

    Get something like a Novation LaunchPad or X-Keys controller which can be programmed to control the TriCaster. Or LivePanel for TriCaster which I just started using last night (AMAZING control from any browser on tablet, PC, etc).

    Could have 3 rows of switching keys, one row each to control sources for each M/E (projector). Left, Center, Right screens (and you can RENAME the ME buttons in TriCaster interface as LEFT, CENTER, RIGHT as well for ease of use). For images that are split into 3 parts, could load the 3 parts into Buffers and send those 3 buffers to the 3 M/Es. That is where macros come into play, to load and display the 3 parts all at same time, with single button press. But then using the 3 live M/E switcher rows you could hot-punch any source to any of the 3 projectors as well.

    I've never used the multi-projector wide-image setup, but sounds like a challenge and I love a challenge, gets the creativity flowing to resolve it.

    Thanks
    Jeff Pulera
    Streaming Broadcast Solutions - Newtek Elite

    TriCasters: Mini with AE, TC1
    Camera: Sony PMW-X70 4K
    Controllers: All variety of XKeys
    PTZ: Newtek NDIHX-PTZ1

  5. #5
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    Yes, I do love challenges too. I used keys and livepanel for a while and they are amazing tools combined with macros on the TriCaster !
    I've already thinked about that way to solve my problem, and It works. I however need to be able to move one windowed source from an M/E to another, maybe a synchronized key on each M/E ? I'll try soon and let u know. I'll then post here some screen captures of the TC1 config.
    The only tricky thing is that I'll need to prepare complex macros, challenging, but not impossible ^^

    I've done many multi projector wide screens, but always using two mixers : one for the video signals in full 16/9 and another taking those signals and spreading them among the wide screen. +80ms delay at least. Not convenient for labial sync.
    I also think I could try with softwares like Resolume, able to output any kind of format, but the latency will still the same problem.

    I WANT to beat that challenge

    I saw that the NPA V2 might purpose such things (choose which part of the screen a mix will output)
    Please Newtek, make dream possible (again )
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  6. #6
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    Don't you get some mix outputs back when you connect to the NC1?

    I would be leaning towards a quadlink resolution, splitting it up and doing the data doubling in Twist, and then just working with the top 1/3 of the image as your output. Then connect your auxes and recordings on the NC1?

    That working depends on the answer to my first question; I have yet to use one.

    Or just rent an S3.
    E. Lee Dickinson | President
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee-AVP View Post
    Don't you get some mix outputs back when you connect to the NC1?

    I would be leaning towards a quadlink resolution, splitting it up and doing the data doubling in Twist, and then just working with the top 1/3 of the image as your output. Then connect your auxes and recordings on the NC1?

    That working depends on the answer to my first question; I have yet to use one.

    Or just rent an S3.
    Hi Lee,
    The tricaster outputs "only" 4 mix outputs via NDI and SDI simultaneously.
    The NC1io takes any available NDI signal and converts it to an SDI signal, it doesn't allow the TC1 to output more NDI mixes.
    I'll have to work in UHD to output a quadlink, and i'll have only 1 mix output doing that. I could make a separate mix for confidence monitors using the NC1, but i'll need to be able to record a second Mix Effect, seems to be difficult.
    The S3 rentaal isn't an option here, even if i know it's the easiest solution.
    Thanks for adding your opinion !
    TriCaster TC-1
    TC1 LP
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