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Thread: Physical Sky blackness

  1. #1

    Physical Sky blackness

    I love the Physical Sky in 2019 but if you aim the camera down even a little everything under the horizon is jet black. Is there anything you can do to change it? I'm doing an arch-viz style video and wouldn't have enough ground to go on forever and hide it.
    ~~Phil Nolan
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    id be praying to the dpont god

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    Super Member Kryslin's Avatar
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    @Philbert : You could, you know, submit a feature request for it to duplicate dpont's sunsky's functionality.

    dpont's sunsky does work with LW 2018+. He updated it to do so sometime last year.

    Sensei has an infinite plane plugin, but unknown whether it works in 2018+ or not. He'd have to clarify.

    You don't need an infinite plane, either. Just a couple of kilometers... which you can set up in modeler, one of the basic modeling functions in layout, or using a null w/ a shape in layout...
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    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philbert View Post
    I love the Physical Sky in 2019 but if you aim the camera down even a little everything under the horizon is jet black. Is there anything you can do to change it? I'm doing an arch-viz style video and wouldn't have enough ground to go on forever and hide it.
    Itīs only logical, anything under the horizon should be nothing, unless there is something
    So just add a groundplane, I usually add a groundplane at the size of 12km, but you can make it even bigger.

    As mentioned,dp sunsky has a mirror function that helps for somethings, I think he updated it for 2019, but the physical sky and sunsky differs a bit.
    But I donīt see no reason to not add a groundplane.

  5. #5
    Dreamer Ztreem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Itīs only logical, anything under the horizon should be nothing, unless there is something
    Is it? I thought the atmosphere was kind of spherical.

  6. #6
    I guess I just have to make a ground plane. I like the idea of having no geometry though, it renders faster. I was hoping I could just continue the bottom most color all the way down.
    ~~Phil Nolan
    www.philnolan3d.com - Twitter - YouTube
    Win 10 Home x64, Core i7 3.4 GHz, GeForce GT 640, 16GB RAM
    Laptop: Win10 x64, Core I7 8th gen, 1.8 GHz, 16GB RAM

  7. #7
    Just layer a gradient over the top of the physical sky, with a solid colour in -Y and an alpha of 100% in +Y, and blend it slightly if you need a slight falloff. Hopefully some sort of simple fix is implemented soon, but this does work, I've tested it.

  8. #8
    Oh great thanks I didn't expect you could combine them.
    ~~Phil Nolan
    www.philnolan3d.com - Twitter - YouTube
    Win 10 Home x64, Core i7 3.4 GHz, GeForce GT 640, 16GB RAM
    Laptop: Win10 x64, Core I7 8th gen, 1.8 GHz, 16GB RAM

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    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ztreem View Post
    Is it? I thought the atmosphere was kind of spherical.
    the atmosphere is spherical, so is the earth..and the atmosphere doesnīt really penetrate the spherical earth..thus the obscuring cut off, so I think the logic sort of extens well to the real thing as well, unless the earth is flat.
    If we start to think no earth..you may think there would only be atmosphere and no cut off, but you see..no mass, no atmosphere at all.

    Itīs not an event horizon..itīs just land & earth horizon.

  10. #10
    It doesn't mix with the bg gradient, but the layers and layered textures all work as with anything else in that editor.

  11. #11
    Dreamer Ztreem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    the atmosphere is spherical, so is the earth..and the atmosphere doesnīt really penetrate the spherical earth..thus the obscuring cut off, so I think the logic sort of extens well to the real thing as well, unless the earth is flat.
    If we start to think no earth..you may think there would only be atmosphere and no cut off, but you see..no mass, no atmosphere at all.

    Itīs not an event horizon..itīs just land & earth horizon.
    But now we are in a 3D app and not in reality. With your logic (that may be physically correct) we would not be able to even add a physical sky if the scene is empty and the sky would conform to the shape of the objects in the scene if you don’t first create a planet volume.

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    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ztreem View Post
    But now we are in a 3D app and not in reality. With your logic (that may be physically correct) we would not be able to even add a physical sky if the scene is empty and the sky would conform to the shape of the objects in the scene if you don’t first create a planet volume.
    Well..It seems we have different ways of looking at what is logic and where that fitīs in, I really donīt follow you on this counter logic you brought forth on of how to treat the semantics within the 3D world.
    You are restricting my logic to only be valid out of a point off reality world and the physical behaviors there in...I donīt make a complete bond to that realism, just a fraction..which is that the physical sky tries to simulate the real world
    look, not the complete physics..which as you say would require a planet volume.

    The output is similar, no earth...then it would be just pure blackness, why would we "Logicly" expect a physical sky that goes beneath the horizon?..when there in the 3d world isnīt any need for it to simulate the look of the real world.
    The fact that the Threadstarter would like it to have such option is a completely different matter versus the logic of what should be expected as output in real world as well as 3d world for the equeal look in these referenced worlds.

    I am all for options though to have a non horizon option for occasions when that could be needed, and you know what..I think it was me who put that suggestion to Denis and his sunsky plugin to make a way to avoid the sharp cutoff horizon, so he made a mirror function...I think that was suggested due to how the background fog worked ..which could cause a sharp edge in the fog otherwise, but other than that..it has no real good use for realism..since the earth always has a horizon (unless foggy day) and the question about being render effective without any geometry wasnīt the target either.

    So again..when refering to logicly, that pertains to giving results equal to the real world...not actually simulating the whole planet..which some other landscape dedicated software may do to some extent.

  13. #13
    Dreamer Ztreem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Well..It seems we have different ways of looking at what is logic and where that fitīs in, I really donīt follow you on this counter logic you brought forth on of how to treat the semantics within the 3D world.
    You are restricting my logic to only be valid out of a point off reality world and the physical behaviors there in...I donīt make a complete bond to that realism, just a fraction..which is that the physical sky tries to simulate the real world
    look, not the complete physics..which as you say would require a planet volume.

    The ouput is similar...no earth pure blackness, why would we expect logicly a physical sky that goes beneath the horizon?..when there in the 3d world isnīt any need for it to simulate the look of the real world.
    The fact that the Threadstarter would like it so is a completely different matter.
    As I see it, we are in a 3d app and not bound to reality. So in the real world you can not take the earth away but in 3d you can and still have the atmosphere so it would be logical in that sense that you would see the sky continue beneath the horizon. But maybe I’m the only one with that kind of logic. Who cares, most physical sky systems work the same way as in LW, logic or not.

  14. #14
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ztreem View Post
    As I see it, we are in a 3d app and not bound to reality. So in the real world you can not take the earth away but in 3d you can and still have the atmosphere so it would be logical in that sense that you would see the sky continue beneath the horizon. But maybe I’m the only one with that kind of logic. Who cares, most physical sky systems work this way, logic or not.
    I think you fail to see the point of my views, and you are restricting this logic to a certain referenceframe that is different to the logic of the reference frame I proposing..itīs not about making the 3d world act as a world reality simulator, it is referenced to what is excpected to be seen if you have something or nothing in the scene..and for that I assert my logic within that reference is valid.

    I get what you mean about the logic of sky continue beyond the horizon..that is logic for a state of.."nothing prevents it to be so in the 3d world" but itīs in my views completely illogical in the reference of what we expect a physical sky tool to provide to simulate the real looks.

    vue and terragen perhaps works in these manners of simulating the earth and sky...but for lightwave, this is just a background physical sky, it isnīt even volumetric or spectral..but it does what it was intended to do as basic as possible, and that means a horizon which also is a reference to albedo etc, where would you put the albedo with a continious sky?

    Most physical sky system works in what way? which software do you reference to?
    Blender has it yes..but there is a distinction between a supposed horison as well, itīs just that itīs softer with a color similar to the sky and not pure black...but the look would be completely wrong if you aim for realism look and have that in there without any ground.

    The softer continued "sky" in blender for instance...doesnīt have any color grading shift as opposed to the sky that is above the horizon soft edge, it just tints the backdrop with a color as close to the ending albedo or horizon sky, it may yield a softer nicer look..but ultimately wrong if you want realism in the output look.

  15. #15
    Registered User MarkAH's Avatar
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    Wouldn't you have some sort of terrain, or streets, parks, landscaping?
    What, you would put all the struggling landscape architects out of business?
    No! Not that!
    OK, what I've found with these various Sky simulators is that almost always the horizon is fixed.
    Doesn't seem to be a way move it.
    So...
    I have some landscaping.
    Gotta have landscaping or your buildings are just floating in space, right?
    I parent everything that isn't parented to something else, to the landscape, or terrain.
    Even parent the camera to the landscape, and get the camera angle, focal length etc, so all the designs look nice.
    Add the Sky simulator, and then just tilt the landscape to where the horizon looks nice to you.

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