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Thread: David Ridlen post on why NT marketing & communication needs improvement....Will it?

  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by lardbros View Post
    Unfortunately, LW doesn't get enough decent marketing. <snip> The only time it got better was when Rob first took over and started being an evangelist.
    Just exactly WHO is the current "face" of LW?

    I really miss having someone who is enthusiastic about the product, and can personally use the product... either as a free-lancer or core Newtek employee, someone that you can sense the passion and who genuinely seems to care about the future and provides a public face in terms of trade shows, events and tutorials.

    Brad provided that function of course, Rob, Lee, William, Gino, many others over the decades... who is left?

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imageshoppe View Post
    Just exactly WHO is the current "face" of LW?
    Steve.

  3. #78

    i'll volontaire.

    but first, free beers for everyone!

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  4. #79
    Super Member vncnt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertoortiz View Post
    This is a great idea.

    But it would need coordination between the forum team and a designated spokesman from the dev staff.
    I'm not convinced that this is the best approach for Lightwave.

    I think designing a global concept and working out the most important details should be executed with limited resources, not with 1000 experts. The result will be much stronger, and less resources are wasted.

    Overloading a small design team with lot's of small details and solutions is not always productive.
    If you want to assist the design team, instead of telling them how to do their job, it's better to give them general goals like: "improve the workflow for X", "improve compatibility with Y", "find a new solution for Z".

    X could be "acting with a 3D character" or "director driven performances", etc.
    Y could be any other pipeline. Film, TV, online, real-time, simulation, etc.
    Z could be "pose archive" or "gas simulation" or "faster rendering" etc.

    Solutions that can be universally applied or are used by more customers are preferred.

  5. #80
    Angry Mac User Otterman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vncnt View Post
    I'm not convinced that this is the best approach for Lightwave.

    I think designing a global concept and working out the most important details should be executed with limited resources, not with 1000 experts. The result will be much stronger, and less resources are wasted.

    Overloading a small design team with lot's of small details and solutions is not always productive.
    If you want to assist the design team, instead of telling them how to do their job, it's better to give them general goals like: "improve the workflow for X", "improve compatibility with Y", "find a new solution for Z".

    X could be "acting with a 3D character" or "director driven performances", etc.
    Y could be any other pipeline. Film, TV, online, real-time, simulation, etc.
    Z could be "pose archive" or "gas simulation" or "faster rendering" etc.

    Solutions that can be universally applied or are used by more customers are preferred.
    Agreed totally. This forum is its own worst enemy. It'll be like the tail wagging the dog. Needs a select few of beta testers in the industry not a forum of squabbling hobbyists if its to get Lightwave back on track.
    Last edited by Otterman; 05-01-2019 at 03:09 AM.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otterman View Post
    Agreed totally. This forum is its own worst enemy. It'll be like the tail wagging the dog. Needs a select few of beta testers in the industry not a forum of squabbling hobbyists if its to get Lightwave back on track.
    excellent

  7. #82
    Ahh I miss Gino

    Beta testing is mostly industry people, that's kind of the point, the problem is they have *VERY* different priorities than 'squabbling hobbyists' and of course, plenty of cash to buy tools that others can't for the missing bits they've been pushing the team away from. Just because someone is an 'industry professional' doesn't mean they care about your issues.

    I do think we could use another evangelist, but I have no idea who it could be. There's very few people with a good all round grasp of LW, and *ALSO* good at doing talking in public and *ALSO* has the time to commit...

  8. #83
    Super Member vncnt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otterman View Post
    Agreed totally. This forum is its own worst enemy. It'll be like the tail wagging the dog. Needs a select few of beta testers in the industry not a forum of squabbling hobbyists if its to get Lightwave back on track.
    The influence of moneymakers is a logical one but carries the risk of polishing old tricks and cling to old habits.
    Also, the industry is never going to ask for solutions that they've already found in other expensive software, supported by their expensive custom scripts.

    With this starting point, Lightwave design goals for the current industry are more focused on compatibility and the renderer. And that is exactly what we see in 2019.x.
    I fear this strategy is a spiral to the bottom in the long run because large companies will gradually take over this function of Lightwave.

    Lightwave needs healthy long-term design goals to generate more interest, and more profit.
    A long-term design goal for Lightwave should initially be interesting for small businesses with big ambitions. Businesses with a limited number of employees, working together on the same project.
    A well-tested concept can then safely be implemented in larger businesses and/or grow into something bigger.

    If we want to help determine the right course for Lightwave, we (small businesses, soloists, and hobbyists) must give Newtek a reason to follow us in our direction.
    Preferably a reason that has the potential to earn money.

    How?
    Show everyone what you are trying to do, how you do it, what could be improved or added, show the final results on your homepage/Vimeo/YouTube, and tell us what it has brought to business.
    Don't forget to mention you have used Lightwave.

  9. #84
    The problem I find with the forums here, is it's a constant rehash of what should be. And that is completely valid, but it dominates these forums. It didn't used to. There is discussion about some techniques, and some work arounds, but a good chunk of the bandwidth is rehashing the same things, mostly being that Lightwave is not in the position it once was, who's fault that is, why can't you be more like so and so, and a contingent of Lightwave is dead throwing bombs, and another contingent of Lightwave is still a great vibrant tool with less and less examples of howso.

    There are obviously a lot of people still using the software (a lot being relative I suppose to the niche), but the environment in the forums has always been considered relatively toxic. It has had a reputation for that for years, and I know there a lot of us who do still use it professionally, daily, barely come here anymore because honestly it's depressing. It's a constant gripe fest, and that's not saying it's not fair in a lot of ways (As LW/Newtek have not helped the situaion on lots of fronts), but you can only hear people saying how crappy the software you are using is before you just don't feel good about yourself or the community anymore, even if that software is still providing fruit for you.

    Most in the communities I know, are multi-software users. They have a base, and then branch out from there. If a tool doesn't meet their needs anymore, they move to another, have some fondness for what they are leaving, and then re-engage it if it turns out later to have qualities they need in their workflow. It's not personal, and you have to evaluate your income to spend ratios constantly to utilize different tools, but that's the nature of the beast.

    Here it always gets so personal and eventually negative, and I'll bet that most people who are using Lightwave and trying to get on with their work, just aren't interested in the constant doom and gloom, so don't participate. If in fact you go through the Facebook forums about lightwave you will see some pretty fantastic work being posted daily, from different disciplines and industries.

    Maybe it's the passion that causes this on both sides of the coin.. I'm not sure, but theres some very talented people out there using Lightwave who wouldn't think to post here anymore because of the constant negativity... life's too short.

    How that came to be is up for debate...


    My 2 cents.

    st3.

  10. #85
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLexx View Post
    Steve.
    What did I ever do to you?

    I just pop in now and again because a) I am a longstanding LW customer and all too occasional user and I like to listen, and b) to keep the discussion reasonably (if imperfectly) civil. I think Chuck, whose return to LW duties after years primarily elsewhere is very welcome, does a pretty nice job as an 'elder-statesman/ombudsman', but it's true there's no-one filling the 'evangelist' shoes at the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Otterman View Post
    Agreed totally. This forum is its own worst enemy. It'll be like the tail wagging the dog. Needs a select few of beta testers in the industry not a forum of squabbling hobbyists if its to get Lightwave back on track.
    I pretty much agree with the premise that a small circle of key influencers is better than a diverse gaggle, but I would not denigrate hobbyists, not because that's what I am (and a poor one at that) but because they are a large market, and perhaps form the bedrock of longtime LW customers. So, yes it would be a mistake to allow planning to drown in the clash of many voices, but you can also go very wrong listening to just a few professionals - who often have very precise and narrow requirements, even ones that are peculiarly their own.
    --
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  11. #86
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Igu4n4 View Post
    Maybe it's the passion that causes this on both sides of the coin.. I'm not sure, but theres some very talented people out there using Lightwave who wouldn't think to post here anymore because of the constant negativity... life's too short.
    I agree heartily with your entire post, having written much the same thing recently ... though I actually do think the civility has improved very noticeably in the past six months or so, thanks to a certain amount of restraint from both camps. I really don't see any value in beating the same old negative drum anyway, but very much like to see people's work (and Facebook and I have an agreement; I don't use it, and they don't care, so 'it's all good').
    --
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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    I agree heartily with your entire post, having written much the same thing recently ...
    2 Fixes

    remove the LW Community forum *altogether* --- will dramatically reduce random posts and irrelevant chatter
    bring back thumbnails and artwork

  13. #88
    Founding member raymondtrace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnlineRender View Post
    ...remove the LW Community forum *altogether* --- will dramatically reduce random posts and irrelevant chatter...
    There is definitely something wrong with the disorder of forum discussion. There's not any way for a forum community to rate its own content (liking/upvoting/sharing/etc) so we just have this cluttered pile of discussion with futile attempts at organization. How many dozens of forum categories do we really need?

    I'm here to improve skills. I suspect this is true for others. How does one discern a high value post like this one ( https://forums.newtek.com/showthread...11#post1570511 ) from an endlessly pointless time-sucking thread like this one ( https://forums.newtek.com/showthread...cquires-NewTek )?

    Some other sites offer the ability for users to rank the value of responses:
    https://graphicdesign.stackexchange....ames/4202#4202
    LW7.5D, 2015, 2018, 2019 running portably on a USB drive on an Amiga 2500 running Wine.

  14. #89
    Registered User gdkeast's Avatar
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    I've always considered the Internet like the Wild West and so for me, I don't find this forum that toxic. Not any more toxic than reading You Tube commentary or even Reddit or anything else. Personally, I've learned some valuable things on here and it has saved me time in frustration. I didn't post here for the longest time, mostly because I didn't want to lazily ask a question instead of trying to figure it out as is expected in programming. I'd like to think that most people here are here because they like LW, want to know what the latest news is, and want to learn more. And I think that's pretty much what happens except for an occasional blow-out here and there. But to me, that's just the way it goes.

  15. #90

    agree, i've read just as "harsh" stuff at the Facebook LightWiki forum. though more calm now.

    if this is "bad", then i don't think people know what "bad" is.

    can things be improved? sure.

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