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Thread: David Ridlen post on why NT marketing & communication needs improvement....Will it?

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    Some tasks are better suited to the Zbrush workflow but some things are so much simpler in polygonal modeling apps that allow for easier precision, scale and manipulation.
    Yup.
    Last edited by erikals; 04-26-2019 at 11:58 AM.
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  2. #32
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    those users should write that very same message in public / at these forums.
    Such conversations tend to become personal, which is not welcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    hammering the same nail gets to be tiring, it just won't move.
    Constructive criticism is one thing, but yes, if it is endlessly repetitious it clearly benefits no-one.

    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    but to think that old users abandon LightWave because of the negativity on this forum is, not very sharp.
    Oh, I think many more have abandoned the forums rather than LW for that reason. I have two very good LW'ers on my team, and neither bothers with the forums very much, and this is why.
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  3. #33

    anyways, i'm sure there will be less repetitive constructive criticism in the near future.

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  4. #34
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    anyways, i'm sure there will be less repetitive constructive criticism in the near future.

    When it comes to LW, I'm not sure of a darn thing. Time will tell ... a the moment, it's business as usual (which is doubtless what some are afraid of).
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  5. #35
    A.K.A "The Silver Fox" Gungho3D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    When it comes to LW, I'm not sure of a darn thing. Time will tell ... a the moment, it's business as usual (which is doubtless what some are afraid of).
    Steve

    Occasionally your posts have a deep honesty embedded within …

    … however, to distil an equally deep truth about many of the aggravated posts (yes I know some of them could be better expressed), the fact remains that it is literally "business as usual" by NT (and now the New-NT?) which lies at the heart and core of why many of them are posted.



    I'm NOT talking about the Devs - we love the Devs, more power to them!



    But communication, that still sucks, is handled piecemeal and doled out late and reactively instead of proactively, and somehow I'm made to feel that I should be grateful
    - NO, I don't mean that NT should "magic up" information they have no access to / do not have permission to post
    - YES, I do mean a complete absence of timely, well placed (i.e. not buried in a product post I never look at) "heads up LWers, we're going down this path, can't say much right now but we'll get to that soon." This is a no-brainer. Instead, we finally got - got what? - we got some clarity which hitch-hiked another forum post by tacking onto the front of that. Has there been a deluge of timely, proactive user-base focused set of updates since then? … sigh no, "business as usual" reactive trickles of "all is well," all of which communicates so effectively that we as a user-base are actually an after-thought ...



    I've been struggling to see how the above somehow does not equate to a passive-aggressive dynamic … and believe me, I'm definitely saying we're on the receiving end. And I actually think it does boil down to exactly that: having spent some years as a prison chaplain (yep, exactly that) in former years, I'm not ignorant of the recipe required for dysfunction … and we have had dysfunction in spades with respect to NT for some years and, guess what: the kids are voting with their feet and leaving home.

    And even when someone as gifted and faithful in using LW as David Ridlen finally expresses his frustration (as he is walking out the door), the "we're sorry" response from New-NT indicates to the rest of us that, yep, it literally is "business as usual" … because we previously wore that response which (at the time) came with "but we'll do better."



    ------------------------------
    The only thing I regret about this post is that I'm leveraging your very accurate words: "business as usual" - I'm hoping you don't get canned because of the above equally accurate, facts based take on your words because I have absolutely no gripe with you - sometimes I've actually wondered how you've managed such a level head.

    To this day, LW for me remains bread and butter in a multi-billion dollar industry where renders and animations have been created in support of bids the size of which would boggle most minds - that's the size of bids, not the size of the renders

    As a faithful 21 yr user of LW, always an advocate, always amazed at the sheer depth of skill I see in so many who post their best on this forum, I believe I have earned the right to speak as clearly as I have above and not find myself castigated by NT for saying things which are as plain as the nose on the end of my face.

  6. #36
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gungho3D View Post
    The only thing I regret about this post is that I'm leveraging your very accurate words: "business as usual" - I'm hoping you don't get canned because of the above equally accurate, facts based take on your words because I have absolutely no gripe with you - sometimes I've actually wondered how you've managed such a level head.
    Nah, no worries. Your reply is exactly what I meant when I wrote "which is doubtless what some are afraid of".

    Speaking broadly, humility is always a good thing, not a weakness - especially when onlookers can easily point to legitimate shortcomings. So is honesty. This doesn't mean one must always tell all he knows, but I promise you that you will never find me deliberately misleading you, stating something I know to be wrong. It works the other way, too. For example, when I say "Don't expect LW news immediately, because at the moment no-one really knows what (if anything) the change in ownership will mean", I do not do so without good reason. I'm not going to provide details, which wouldn't be particularly helpful anyway - but I never make affirmative statements without a basis for doing so.

    To this particular point, it would be ridiculous to pompously pretend we were perfect. I've simply pointed out occasionally that there are still many who enjoy working with LW, but every time one of these people has the temerity to pop up, a vocal handful jump all over him. Perhaps these ones would say that the same thing happens to them when they offer a critique. Perhaps both types should be a little more considerate of one another. OK, so we're not one big happy family; but we are a family.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gungho3D View Post
    I have absolutely no gripe with you - sometimes I've actually wondered how you've managed such a level head.
    Please don't imagine I always personally disagree with or fail to value criticism. But no-one benefits from snarky and endless nagging. This said, I will add that there are a few here who have mastered the ability to offer a well thought out and temperate comment that variously reveals both good and bad aspects of matters without either harping or invective. And overall, I think the tone of the forum in 2019 has shown a marked increase in civility and mutual respect.

    As to level-headedness, my wife would probably question your assessment, but anyway I think a little modesty, a little empathy, and a good sense of humor go a long way.
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  7. #37
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    the ying and the yang; both are needed to remain healthy.

    i would prefer it if fanboi’s and trolls returned to the forum but that ship might have sailed.

    respect.

  8. #38
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    i would prefer it if fanboi’s and trolls returned to the forum but that ship might have sailed.
    Whereas I like to think that it was lost at sea with all hands.

    Provocation, whatever the angle it comes from, is generally just someone's way of saying "Look at me!". Most of us outgrew that around age 6.
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  9. #39

    have the fanbois and the trolls agreed to who is who ?

    [runs away]
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  10. #40
    Hi guys...
    Just popped in to say "hello" to old friends, that's all.....

    Cheers everyone....

  11. #41

    Welcome Back!  
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  12. #42
    Registered User gdkeast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLexx View Post
    One thing I found amusing was a contrasting ethos from some LW users. For example, I saw a Blender character modelling tutorial where he said (paraphrased) "It's about constantly practicing and growing your skills with each iteration". Compare to Larry with Lightwave, "Make just one ear, then use it for the rest of your life". Someone tell me that isn't totally hilarious.

    LOL. I'm definitely a make-one-ear-for-life guy.

  13. #43
    Vacant, pretty vacant pinkmouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    ...Provocation, whatever the angle it comes from, is generally just someone's way of saying "Look at me!"...
    Indeed, but why do they feel the need for attention? Is it that LW3DG don't actually listen, respond or communicate to its user base? I've seen this many times on other user forums, for S/W, H/W, games and Kickstarters. The fora that feel productive, friendly and positive are the ones where users feel involved and the host company responds, gives help and is open with where they are going and problems they're having. The companies that don't, well, here we are.

    Steve, you call these people trolls, (admittedly usually with a smiley). And, being a mod on another forum much bigger than this, I feel your pain. But they're not. They are/were loyal paying customers who'd invested a lot of time, money, and even "love" in LW, and I suspect that if they could they would still be buying and using LW. These are your best customers, they know the work flows/arounds, they can get things done and help others.

    But no. Label them troublemakers and trolls, refuse to communicate, don't bother addressing the many issues they've brought up, and just hope they'll go away. That's a six year old's behaviour.
    Last edited by pinkmouse; 04-28-2019 at 01:08 AM.
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  14. #44

    LOL. I'm definitely a make-one-ear-for-life guy.
    me too,.... latenight/earlymorning



    Last edited by erikals; 04-28-2019 at 05:09 AM.
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  15. #45
    Vacant, pretty vacant pinkmouse's Avatar
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    So, looking at that hair style, you made that, what, 1983?
    Al
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