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Thread: New Life for my older assets

  1. #61
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Well, that was an interesting excursion down the ragged edge of the rabbit hole. Still not entirely sure what was happening or why. Part of the problem I believe is I've been using Sud-D the fur layers. At render time, the poly level doubled from what I though. The multi layered fur object was causing problems for some reason. Tested going with a mono layer for the fur & that worked fine this time. I swear, LW's finickier than a cat at times.

    Anyway, a much nicer looking Bengal Tiger & rendering in ~ 3 mins....

    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #62
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    Whanged an Americam Bison out this morning. This time the layered fur items for the main body were no issue. As a test though, I toggled Sub patching on for a couple sections & the render crashed quite quickly. So, I guess the extra demand for that much geom is just too much. He looks pretty good. Fur is coarser as the LAMH settings were.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #63
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    I like the tiger fur, and the lighting is better I think now, so not so much to say about the fur, just want them to be placed in better environments
    Why not try some of the desert hdriīs
    There are some free good deserts hdr images.
    Itīs a bit scary to see that tiger in that environment, cause it reminds me of landscapes over here..and I do not wanīt to run in to that one

    And perhaps some light correction ..such as stronger sunlight intensity, and perhaps a softer falloff shadow from the sun.

    Which sunlight type do you use, distant or the new sunlight type?
    And what lux value?

    Personally I often raise my value from defaul 3.4 to around 4-5-6, for space scenery..even more.
    to note, the temperature of the new sunlight type and how that also affects intensity sort of.

    If the scenery is withing some forrest, I would probably let it have a larger angle than 0,52 to disperse light and soften shadows a bit, same if the scenery has clouds..
    you could expect that some of them affects the sunlight a bit with softer shadow, also depends on if there is fog or humidity..which will disperse the sunlight as well..and thus softer shadows.

    The bison needs light reflected from the ground and up.

  4. #64
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    These were mostly to see if I could even get the thing to work. It would then it wouldn't, ... Short answer, don't Sub-patch hair. No need anyway. Did a CU look of one duped tuft, with & w/o, & you can't tell. Seemed a few years back I could so just did that as routine. Explains why the larger models were having problems.

    With this HDR, I can set camera keys to look at shade vs lit side quickly. Adding transluceny to fur is vital.

    The other thing is that these are older assets & as such don't have full mapping, so they simply can't respond to the lighting as would a fully PBR'd surface. Ya have to play tricks so more fiddling to fit the scene, as was the reason for PBR to begin with. I'm sure there are a number of things a couple days experimentation will improve.

    Odd you should comment on the ground bounce (although that's a ground null object & not geom), as I noticed that earlier. I tested him in the Old West set where there is geom ground that's moderately light in color & have the same issue. He is densely furred, but still. Double checked settings, no excludes or obvious forgotten about settings, etc. Couldn't find anything that sticks out with the scenes settings anyway. Tried a test with a simple light surface & just default Principled gray plastic from the built in presets. & they seem to respond more or less as expected, a bit brighter closer to the ground & dimmer when higher. So, I think Mr. Bison mostly needs some tuning on the fur. I might try picking apart what the Daz settings are (thought I set it to advanced hair in the LAMH settings), but I'm not fully sold on those either as a default Daz render often is quite fire-flyed for furred figures. Values for some settings are pretty cryptic too. A Normal map value of 5 (OK, 5 whats?) while the bump map is using a value of 1.5.
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  5. #65
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Interesting discovery today. I routinely just remove all spec & gloss in order to get the basics in first. I was also trying to figure out why the fur seemed thin in some cases and that really exhibited itself with a new figure. I moved in close on the lower jaw & could see that the fur polys simply weren't connected. Thinking it was a tiny mismatch in scaling some how, did a number of tests, but that wasn't it. Went back to the Daz scene & the generated fur there has the same issue. Hmmm. Looked in the LAMH editor & it was fine. It kinda had to be as the follicle curves are based on the geom. Anyway, the only other variable I could think of was the compression factor for the Export. I've always used AM's recommended level of 5 & never saw any issue. So, I gave Level 4 a try, and not only did that work & look better, the resulting file was less than 100 kb different. Level 3 was actually a touch smaller & imperceptible from 4.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    So, now I can get back to the surfaces. I might drag this into 2020 eventually to try out the new hair shaders, but for now just want to see what I can do with what I have to work with currently.

    As the thread is titled, these assets are frequently pre Iray, PBR, etc. There are often no bump or normal maps for example. Diffuse textures generally have to be set to PhotoShop Multiply with some light gray value. Maps get assigned to Transp instead of Clip, sometimes a gray scale map that may be for Spec, maybe for Rough, ... A guessing game to be certain, & I'm sure there's a recipe somewhere out in the ether for this sort of thing.

    What I'd really like to do is know how to translate Iray into Principled.

    How does one get PBR from Iray: Click image for larger version. 

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    Anyway...

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  6. #66
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma3rk View Post
    Interesting discovery today. I routinely just remove all spec & gloss in order to get the basics in first. I was also trying to figure out why the fur seemed thin in some cases and that really exhibited itself with a new figure. I moved in close on the lower jaw & could see that the fur polys simply weren't connected. Thinking it was a tiny mismatch in scaling some how, did a number of tests, but that wasn't it. Went back to the Daz scene & the generated fur there has the same issue. Hmmm. Looked in the LAMH editor & it was fine. It kinda had to be as the follicle curves are based on the geom. Anyway, the only other variable I could think of was the compression factor for the Export. I've always used AM's recommended level of 5 & never saw any issue. So, I gave Level 4 a try, and not only did that work & look better, the resulting file was less than 100 kb different. Level 3 was actually a touch smaller & imperceptible from 4.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    So, now I can get back to the surfaces. I might drag this into 2020 eventually to try out the new hair shaders, but for now just want to see what I can do with what I have to work with currently.

    As the thread is titled, these assets are frequently pre Iray, PBR, etc. There are often no bump or normal maps for example. Diffuse textures generally have to be set to PhotoShop Multiply with some light gray value. Maps get assigned to Transp instead of Clip, sometimes a gray scale map that may be for Spec, maybe for Rough, ... A guessing game to be certain, & I'm sure there's a recipe somewhere out in the ether for this sort of thing.

    What I'd really like to do is know how to translate Iray into Principled.

    How does one get PBR from Iray: Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Iray BearFur.jpg 
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ID:	147776 When starting from Standard: Click image for larger version. 

Name:	BearFur_Standard.jpg 
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ID:	147777

    Anyway...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	BrnBearV3FurSurfsFitTest.jpg 
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ID:	147780 Click image for larger version. 

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    a
    the two images on top is looking way better than those at last..they just need a more smooth edge level on them, and theb a more glossy wet tounge, so are they all lw or are the top ones Daz renders?

  7. #67
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    a
    the two images on top is looking way better than those at last..they just need a more smooth edge level on them, and theb a more glossy wet tounge, so are they all lw or are the top ones Daz renders?
    No, those were a Daz reference. The bottom two in LW.
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  8. #68
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma3rk View Post
    No, those were a Daz reference. The bottom two in LW.
    Thatīs what I suspected, the fur looks way better with a daz render, for lighting and shading anyway..but it has two low amount of edge smoothing, I am not sure how easy that would be to fix in daz without making it too slow to render and such, in lightwave itīs just about setting a higher edge smoothing.

  9. #69
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Thatīs what I suspected, the fur looks way better with a daz render, for lighting and shading anyway..but it has two low amount of edge smoothing, I am not sure how easy that would be to fix in daz without making it too slow to render and such, in lightwave itīs just about setting a higher edge smoothing.
    That's kinda what that posting was about. By dropping the compression level down just one level did fix that and without increasing the poly count significantly.

    I was going back through some of the RH tutorials and notice there may be similarities between the Daz surfaces and what LW uses for it's Skin material, in that on map is used but in multiple layers with individual params. Going to explore that later.

    While looking for more info on hair, I came across some missing info last night regarding the use of Portal with Enviro lights, so revisiting a project from last year that was giving me problems.
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  10. #70
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    A DS script to help with the export of scenes with instances. Have not tried it myself.

    https://www.daz3d.com/instances-to-objects

  11. #71
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Free4Ever View Post
    A DS script to help with the export of scenes with instances. Have not tried it myself.

    https://www.daz3d.com/instances-to-objects
    I use that all the time actually when prepping for OBJ export.
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  12. #72
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    What are the biggest DS scenes with instancing that worked in LW?

  13. #73
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Free4Ever View Post
    What are the biggest DS scenes with instancing that worked in LW?
    I'm going to guess that one of Stonemason's sets, "Streets of the Old West" probably. It's also using a multi layered texture for the terrain that I could never fully decipher but utilized the wt. maps for my own instancing.

    There's another product that's doing some real magic with proxy geom & instancing called Ultra Scene Creator. Impossible to export those out though; just way too much geom gets created.
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  14. #74
    Not so newbie member lardbros's Avatar
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    What shader are you using for the fur in LW?

    I wouldn't use a standard shader, or the Fiber FX hair one either (it's always been a bit bad).

    I can highly recommend the PBR Hair Shader, it is FAR superior to the old FFX one.
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  15. #75
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lardbros View Post
    What shader are you using for the fur in LW?

    I wouldn't use a standard shader, or the Fiber FX hair one either (it's always been a bit bad).

    I can highly recommend the PBR Hair Shader, it is FAR superior to the old FFX one.
    I'm just utilizing what gets generated from Daz. I'm hoping to try out the new one in 2020 at some point.

    Daz's system has a number of sub settings but haven't translated that in to Principled. Terminology & no direct corresponding to Lightwave in many panels. A single map is created for each fur group then used in multiple ways.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    It's an odd but very specific UV'ing.
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