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Thread: New Life for my older assets

  1. #46
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma3rk View Post
    Well, Iray also has GPU abilities although I've yet to figure what it's susceptible too for really kicking up the render time. I think it's percentage of the frame for certain surfaces.

    Real issue is trying to translate Daz Iray into Lightwave PBR, node based. Right now, it's like Apples to Liverwurst.

    Not sure which ext your referring to, but there is a fairly new Daz product called Ultra Scenery I've been playing with. It's doing some real magic with incidencing & render time proxy substitution. In short, impossible to import into LW but would really be slick if incidence info could get transferred somehow. The Iray preset for it is just lovely & I'd like to figure out how to translate that to LW as well.

    Here are a couple project samples from a few weeks ago using it:

    Attachment 147700

    Attachment 147701
    Huh..thatīs one big dog.

    as for lighting, too dark figures, so some sort of increasement of environmental light is needed...real sky light is illuminating much much more at that time of the day, even if it is within a forrest, so my advice would
    be to start looking at increasing the dome intensity or something like that, not sure exactly what you are using for the case now.?

    For iray, I use nothing than the GPU..if I were to use cpu..dog slow.

    So I am not following you there quite.

    I would really like to try a set of nature for daz and try the render performance out with iray, though I havenīt looked around for assets for that, so either purchasing the assets you recommend here, or retrieve them elsewhere, or make my own..but it would take some time for sure.

  2. #47
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Huh..thatīs one big dog.

    as for lighting, too dark figures, so some sort of increasement of environmental light is needed...real sky light is illuminating much much more at that time of the day, even if it is within a forrest, so my advice would
    be to start looking at increasing the dome intensity or something like that, not sure exactly what you are using for the case now.?

    For iray, I use nothing than the GPU..if I were to use cpu..dog slow.

    So I am not following you there quite.

    I would really like to try a set of nature for daz and try the render performance out with iray, though I havenīt looked around for assets for that, so either purchasing the assets you recommend here, or retrieve them elsewhere, or make my own..but it would take some time for sure.
    Ya, the perspective makes Bruce a bit large, but he is a Great Dane after all. Wish there was an easy way in Daz to do MoBlur, but there isn't. Just one of the reasons I prefer bringing assets into LW.

    Lighting, well that's all to taste I suppose, but I do have to disagree. You do recall (or maybe not) that I do motion picture lighting professionally, (& I'm desperately trying to retire), so I might be a tad biased.

    And I do use calibrated monitors so, ...

    Not every figure has to be fully lit if that's what your getting at. That would be unnatural. You need to look at the balance of the entire frame. And this is a WIP after al,l but I rather like the balance.

    That one was also rendered in Daz btw using the Sun-Sky settings. I let Daz have all the resources it wants actually. It just purrs along.

    The other forest shot might still be a bit to dark agreed. Different set, but was able to import that one into LW at least. Still lighting it actually & want to migrate it to a Sun-Sky.
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  3. #48
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma3rk View Post
    Well, Iray also has GPU abilities although I've yet to figure what it's susceptible too for really kicking up the render time. I think it's percentage of the frame for certain surfaces.

    Real issue is trying to translate Daz Iray into Lightwave PBR, node based. Right now, it's like Apples to Liverwurst.

    Not sure which ext your referring to, but there is a fairly new Daz product called Ultra Scenery I've been playing with. It's doing some real magic with incidencing & render time proxy substitution. In short, impossible to import into LW but would really be slick if incidence info could get transferred somehow. The Iray preset for it is just lovely & I'd like to figure out how to translate that to LW as well.

    Here are a couple project samples from a few weeks ago using it:

    Attachment 147700

    Attachment 147701
    No mark, I didnīt know that....

    But with respect for all that..and I do not know what credits you have for movies etc...and since you say it, you should have more experience on all that than me, and skills.
    But if not my monitor is way of in calibration etc..it simply doesnīt look good ..or correct in terms of the amount of light illuminated by radiosity or environmental light.
    Some of your others are looking more correct ..so not sure what it is.

    But too me the forrest and the lighting is showcasing a completely differnt amount of illumination, where the figures is going very dark (except for the dog)
    The two figures mostly getting too dark in my opinion, that is the girl and the guy at the car, it may be that the girl has a very dark tone in the skin and not something about the color, diffuseness or reflection or something, and for the guy at the car, something around his clothes and especially around the jeans and shoes, for me when I am out in the forrest and you watch people and things, at what is seemingly a daylight scenario with a light at that elevation level, to me it should be much more illuminated.

    All respect for that you say you are a motion picture professional lighting artist (real life or 3D? )
    But even professionals doesnīt necessarly get it right ..just because they can label themself that...Heck, I can even complain on avatar images and in the theatre when I saw that...and those should be proīs right

    Trying to be as respectful I can about that though, some of your other images is really great.
    But I reckon there would be a need for more input on these images, if others think they are not receiving enough skylight ..or if itīs perfect or something.

    And respect for it being a WIP, just pointed it out..in case you thought it was what you thought looked right etc.

    I donīt agree on that it would be unnatural, Personally..I have high thoughts (you got to believe in yourself ) about myself having a good eye on lighting and shadows..and a good sense on studying light in nature..but, I am not a professional..so take it for what it is.
    I would have to render out comparably images for giving proof to the pudding so to speak.

    And for the dog, perhaps so..great dane, not sure..havenīt studied them enough since I shy away from such beasts

  4. #49
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    That's one of the scenes I have to render in Daz using it's Sun-Sky. I've considerably less control, or rather knowing what options actually do in Daz. So yes it is a completely different lighting than I'm used to in LW, but I rather like the look. It is all high back it & there is a very subtle area fill on Rosa. Been meaning to do a CU on her.

    As far as professional, just means I get paid & not always in a position of making the decisions. I've worked the range from schlock to highest end & everything in between.

    Just thought of an excellent example: Have you seen "Minority Report"? I came on late but wish I photos of some of the sets BEFORE Janusz butchered it using Bleach By-Pass process on the original neg. They were stunning, but none of that detail made it to the screen. The ramp-ways in the Pre-Crime office for example, were painted with a beautiful bi-color metal flake that was deep Kelly green one direction, copper from another. $500 a gallon & they used gallons. Just looked like black enamel on screen. I spent 2 days rigging 6K par lights from under the stage to blast up through those rectangular pillars that are actually glass with swirling smoke vortex plumes. All completely blown out. And had I know that's what they were doing instead of digitally manipulating, I'd have gone & talked to him. I worked with him for several years prior to "Schindlers", but I also have extensive lab background. But, so it goes.

    More war stories later if you wish or start a new thread. Seems it's just usn's here though.
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  5. #50
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma3rk View Post
    That's one of the scenes I have to render in Daz using it's Sun-Sky. I've considerably less control, or rather knowing what options actually do in Daz. So yes it is a completely different lighting than I'm used to in LW, but I rather like the look. It is all high back it & there is a very subtle area fill on Rosa. Been meaning to do a CU on her.

    As far as professional, just means I get paid & not always in a position of making the decisions. I've worked the range from schlock to highest end & everything in between.

    Just thought of an excellent example: Have you seen "Minority Report"? I came on late but wish I photos of some of the sets BEFORE Janusz butchered it using Bleach By-Pass process on the original neg. They were stunning, but none of that detail made it to the screen. The ramp-ways in the Pre-Crime office for example, were painted with a beautiful bi-color metal flake that was deep Kelly green one direction, copper from another. $500 a gallon & they used gallons. Just looked like black enamel on screen. I spent 2 days rigging 6K par lights from under the stage to blast up through those rectangular pillars that are actually glass with swirling smoke vortex plumes. All completely blown out. And had I know that's what they were doing instead of digitally manipulating, I'd have gone & talked to him. I worked with him for several years prior to "Schindlers", but I also have extensive lab background. But, so it goes.

    More war stories later if you wish or start a new thread. Seems it's just usn's here though.
    More war stories donīt worry...if done with respect..both you And I can probably learn from our ways of seeing things.

    Yes, Iīve seen Minority Report, loved the movie as well..but I havenīt purchased it or have it saved etc, will have to check youtube in such case, so your trade of work and you werenīt credited in there..at least not on Imdb.
    The whole production design was just great.

    I would llike to work more with daz studio, maybe..just maybe making my own assets for it, props, clothes etc.
    I may need to look in to Ryan Royes vids about that for making the learning process easier.

    Since You use it a lot, I am still on 4.9 version..which version do you have now? and did you notice something not working when exporting to Lightwave? with 4.9 VS the later builds?

  6. #51
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    More war stories donīt worry...if done with respect..both you And I can probably learn from our ways of seeing things.

    Yes, Iīve seen Minority Report, loved the movie as well..but I havenīt purchased it or have it saved etc, will have to check youtube in such case, so your trade of work and you werenīt credited in there..at least not on Imdb.
    The whole production design was just great.

    I would llike to work more with daz studio, maybe..just maybe making my own assets for it, props, clothes etc.
    I may need to look in to Ryan Royes vids about that for making the learning process easier.

    Since You use it a lot, I am still on 4.9 version..which version do you have now? and did you notice something not working when exporting to Lightwave? with 4.9 VS the later builds?

    I was just on the rigging crew. I actually prefer that to the shooting crew. At WB, they bounce me around everywhere since I've the versatility. Most of the stuff I've worked on won't have a credit. Heck, a lot of the stuff I've worked on I've never seen. Was on the model crew for "5th Element" for 4 months; made it onto one of the early posters but couldn't find it in the credits amongst the hundreds.

    I've been using 4.12x for awhile now. I guess that's why I started in doing these conversions as it seem to be working much better. Wish there was a utility to convert Daz materials & shaders though.

    I've converted some bird figures this weekend. I can convert furred critters using FBX, but it's somewhat pointless as the wt. maps don't get transferred to the hair geom so you can't animate anyway. Now if the LAMH Rman fiber curves from Daz could be translated into FiberFX...

    But, I did discover something this weekend with the LAMH fur objs. When you've a competed & furred character & export from the Daz UI to an obj, you must import into Modeler as One Object. On large figures like the Moose, Modeler will choke; either crash or only be able to load in 3/4 of the fur.

    What I discovered was that the temp obj's that LAMH creates, that it tells you where it wrote them in a Users folder, when imported into Modeler and you uncheck the One Object option, will load as layers now which for some reason is easier for Modeler to handle. They're broken up to correspond to the weights on the core object, but they aren't weighted.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    These subsequently need to be scaled to 1%, but then they fit the base animal perfectly. A bit of a chore but the resulting LWO was ~ 1/3 the size.

    Gonna see if I can get my Moose working now this weekend I think.
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  7. #52
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma3rk View Post
    I was just on the rigging crew. I actually prefer that to the shooting crew. At WB, they bounce me around everywhere since I've the versatility. Most of the stuff I've worked on won't have a credit. Heck, a lot of the stuff I've worked on I've never seen. Was on the model crew for "5th Element" for 4 months; made it onto one of the early posters but couldn't find it in the credits amongst the hundreds.

    I've been using 4.12x for awhile now. I guess that's why I started in doing these conversions as it seem to be working much better. Wish there was a utility to convert Daz materials & shaders though.

    I've converted some bird figures this weekend. I can convert furred critters using FBX, but it's somewhat pointless as the wt. maps don't get transferred to the hair geom so you can't animate anyway. Now if the LAMH Rman fiber curves from Daz could be translated into FiberFX...

    But, I did discover something this weekend with the LAMH fur objs. When you've a competed & furred character & export from the Daz UI to an obj, you must import into Modeler as One Object. On large figures like the Moose, Modeler will choke; either crash or only be able to load in 3/4 of the fur.

    What I discovered was that the temp obj's that LAMH creates, that it tells you where it wrote them in a Users folder, when imported into Modeler and you uncheck the One Object option, will load as layers now which for some reason is easier for Modeler to handle. They're broken up to correspond to the weights on the core object, but they aren't weighted.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Layered Import.png 
Views:	20 
Size:	200.1 KB 
ID:	147719

    These subsequently need to be scaled to 1%, but then they fit the base animal perfectly. A bit of a chore but the resulting LWO was ~ 1/3 the size.

    Gonna see if I can get my Moose working now this weekend I think.
    Hair is something I can not work with anymore in Lightwave unfortunately, LAHM hair..I was impressed with..and could think of purchasing, but I do not have that cpu power.as you have necessary for Lightwave to deal with fiberfx, thatīs why I have to look at "B" you know..though I have yet to mess around with furry creatures, mostly just normal hair in "B"
    with my i7-6700 cpu
    but more GPU with GTX 1080, So GPU rendering with "B" is much faster for me for hair, unfortunately no RTX card so no viewport direct denoiser in "B" only final renders.

  8. #53
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Hair is something I can not work with anymore in Lightwave unfortunately, LAHM hair..I was impressed with..and could think of purchasing, but I do not have that cpu power.as you have necessary for Lightwave to deal with fiberfx, thatīs why I have to look at "B" you know..though I have yet to mess around with furry creatures, mostly just normal hair in "B"
    with my i7-6700 cpu
    but more GPU with GTX 1080, So GPU rendering with "B" is much faster for me for hair, unfortunately no RTX card so no viewport direct denoiser in "B" only final renders.
    Ya, that was a major factor for biting the bullet & getting this system. Good quality stills are all I really need for my purposes. If there need to be some actual animation, then I'd check into shipping of to a render farm & have someone else foot that bill.

    I picked up a nice prop the other day from Renderosity. A Poser version & a Daz version, but the Daz one really wasn't; not the normal folder structure that DS uses. It came with some obj's & textures, but there was also a C4D file. Can't find any means for Daz to use that though. However, Polytrans turned it into a fully rigged LW scene in a few seconds. It's a SteamPunk Sword-Cane so multiple sections. I didn't need it as such, I just liked the look as a normalish cane with a Plague Mask shape to the handle, but now I've the option. Often I'll get some item I like then figure out what to use it in.

    The Moose fur didn't breakup into layers like the Fox tail sample there did, but I was able to import the one LAMH generated into Modeler. A paltry 8+ million polys.
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  9. #54
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    W/O going into the gory details too much:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Was listening to NPR & it fuzzed out like a War of the Worlds scene & the render just went "That's it, that's all your getting..." Noticed it was near 58 Gb mem use & wanted more I guess. Took 30-40 mins to close the render window so I could get to the other window to save this.

    So, I went back to the original LAMH generated OBJ's just to take a look & see if there was another way I could split things up. This time when they opened, they layered up as I wanted them to, as they did yesterday on the Fox tail. Each Layer is named so you get a little bit of an anatomy lesson too. I mean, how many folk would know what a Cannon Hind or a Gaskin is?

    I suspect with the first try, I didn't Exit Modeler & only closed all before, & it forgot to forget somethings.

    I certainly have no idea why, but by doing so, even though it's the exact same amount of geom, Layout is now perfectly content. These are just qwik HDR tests, but rendered in minutes & the UI was responsive.

    Perhaps one of the more technically inclined will see this and know.

    Opens up my library of critters considerably now though.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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  10. #55
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Not sure if you have any tiger models already from daz, or if that animal isnīt of any interest, or if you have access to maya? or if you can convert with polytrans..
    This one is free, as long as you register an account and login before downloading, and you have to wait a couple of seconds for the download.

    Canīt check it out myself though, since I have no tools to convert it...
    https://www.cgtrader.com/free-3d-mod...n-tiger-rigged


    I managed to get many of the animal models from paint3d library before they closed it, check the image, and the thread.
    animals are from low to med res in resolution..and I think there was more than these animals, I havenīt compiled what I got..but let me know if you find some model interesting, I could zip and post it to you.


    for packaging them all and make publicly, not sure I am allowed to do that? despite them being free and now not accessable.
    I do not have all of them though..


  11. #56
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Not sure if you have any tiger models already from daz, or if that animal isnīt of any interest, or if you have access to maya? or if you can convert with polytrans..
    This one is free, as long as you register an account and login before downloading, and you have to wait a couple of seconds for the download.

    Canīt check it out myself though, since I have no tools to convert it...
    https://www.cgtrader.com/free-3d-mod...n-tiger-rigged

    I have much of what AM (LAMH) has put out. I've the white tiger but don't think I've the Bengal map. I'll take a look at the CG Trader cat a bit later today.

    Did a Goshawk yesterday. Pretty decent but limited by maps available for it.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #57
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    I took a look at that file & couldn't do anything with it.

    But, I did take a look at the White Tiger I have & ran it through the process. Quite happy with him. Not fully surfaced here but experimenting with some coloring just to see what Quick 'n Dirty does:

    Using a 212 white for the PSMultiply on the fur:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Trying an Orange for the PSMultiply:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    When LAMH creates it's maps, it's taking the colors from the underlying figure. One might be able to do something similar to the original map then that Daz will use. Encouraging though.

    Wish they had a decent Orangutan now...
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  13. #58
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma3rk View Post
    I took a look at that file & couldn't do anything with it.

    But, I did take a look at the White Tiger I have & ran it through the process. Quite happy with him. Not fully surfaced here but experimenting with some coloring just to see what Quick 'n Dirty does:

    Using a 212 white for the PSMultiply on the fur:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Sprinting White Furrd Tiger.jpg 
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ID:	147735 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Sprinting White Furrd Tiger-LftSide.jpg 
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    Trying an Orange for the PSMultiply:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Orange Burn Test.jpg 
Views:	14 
Size:	588.5 KB 
ID:	147737 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Orange Burn Test LftSide.jpg 
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    When LAMH creates it's maps, it's taking the colors from the underlying figure. One might be able to do something similar to the original map then that Daz will use. Encouraging though.

    Wish they had a decent Orangutan now...
    Like the white tiger, the other coloring just looks awkward and thin.
    Now you have changed lighting to more environmental ..sky lit I think? except for the moose that looks very dark in my monitor as well...even if backlit when you are in a forest etc with decently clear sky and even overcast it has a lot of ambient lighting.

    I think Just need to find better backrounds (assuming you are just testing lighting and fur of course) or skip any full environment backdrop and make all ground elements true 3D, and just use the sky in the environment backdrop.
    But you have made nice backdrop full 3D scenery before..so that shouldnīt be a problem.

    yes, orangutans...cool monkeys, not easy to find anything free there I think.
    https://free3d.com/3d-models/monkey

    And some cats..some free, some not..mostly low poly stuff..but every now and there, a decent model can be found.
    https://free3d.com/3d-models/cat

  14. #59
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    And there is a Monkey scene from Mauro Corvelini, who does nice fiberfx renderings with lightwave..for the content provided with 2020.


    But this one..dunno, something looks too flat and without depth on the fur.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Like the white tiger, the other coloring just looks awkward and thin.
    Now you have changed lighting to more environmental ..sky lit I think? except for the moose that looks very dark in my monitor as well...even if backlit when you are in a forest etc with decently clear sky and even overcast it has a lot of ambient lighting.

    I think Just need to find better backrounds (assuming you are just testing lighting and fur of course) or skip any full environment backdrop and make all ground elements true 3D, and just use the sky in the environment backdrop.
    But you have made nice backdrop full 3D scenery before..so that shouldnīt be a problem.

    yes, orangutans...cool monkeys, not easy to find anything free there I think.
    https://free3d.com/3d-models/monkey

    And some cats..some free, some not..mostly low poly stuff..but every now and there, a decent model can be found.
    https://free3d.com/3d-models/cat

    I don't need the extra geometry load just to test.

    The Sunflowers one is what I generally use to evaluate with. Nice enough directional but with enough diffuse all around to not be harsh.

    Ya, the moose is too dark; again just a test throwing him into a quick eviro.

    Ya that Bengalish thing was just a very quick test to see if a color overlay would do it. Appears it would but while looking for that, there is a Tiger and I apparently had a Tiger LAMH preset. It uses the same Big Cat 2 model so the only real difference is one map.

    I went through the process with it separate from the White Tiger but must have botched something along the line. I did give it a bit more fur count, and the two files & layer counts match & sizes match fairly close, but where as the White was taking ~ 90 secs, the Bengal is still preprocessing 20 mins. in. I'm going to let it go to completion as a reference, but think my remapping of the White will look pretty much the same. Just can't tell at the moment.
    Earth can't be flat otherwise cats would have pushed everything off the edge!

    The Big Apexx System:
    AMD RYZEN THREADRIPPER 2990WX Processor (3.00GHz)
    64GB
    2x NVIDIA Quadro RTX 4000 8GB 32 Core

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