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Thread: Thin film shader in Lightwave 2019

  1. #1
    Registered User TinkerManne's Avatar
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    Thin film shader in Lightwave 2019

    I really enjoyed the oily look of the THIN FILM SHADER in earlier versions. Is there a way to re-create that look in Lightwave 2019?

  2. #2
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerManne View Post
    I really enjoyed the oily look of the THIN FILM SHADER in earlier versions. Is there a way to re-create that look in Lightwave 2019?
    I liked it too, a bit of a pity we can´t have that.
    You can use the carpaint material and use iridiscence, thickness, wavelength and refraction, can be tricky to get what you want though.

    Try and load some of the automotive preset surfaces..perlascent etc, increase thickness and iridiscence and refraction and use vpr and see where the effect kicks in.
    you may need to lower paint roughness to see the color spectrum start to become stronger instead of dispersed.




    Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #3
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    As for putting a thin film on to transparent things, like glasses or lens coat color spectrum, maybe use a color mixer node and combinde carpaint and dielectric.

  4. #4
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    Yes, I think removing the Shaders in the Surfaces panel was quite a loss, with no BSDF replacement "shortcuts". I used FastFresnel, Edge Tranparency and ThinFilm very regularly.

    For LW2019 Principled BSDF, you may have some success setting up a node network with a rainbow-color Gradient based upon the Incidence angle to the Camera to feed the Subsurface Color and Subsurface Intensity. In this case, the Subsurface Distance was set to 10mm. A sample scene is attached.

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    MOV File: OilPuddle_IncidenceSubsurfaceColor.mov

    Here's the node setup:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This node network inverts the World Forward direction of the Camera by multiplying it by (-1,-1,-1), and uses that as the Vector for the Incidence angle. The two Incidence nodes are put through two Scalar Layer nodes which use Smoky procedurals to get a irregular pattern to the irridescence. The Pow nodes are to exaggerate the Indicence angle. If the Gradient keys are spread out more (note the range is from 0.0 to 0.2), then the irridescence will appear at a larger incidence angle.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	02_SubSurfaceVariations.jpg 
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ID:	144742 Smoky procedurals to get irreglar pattern

    The Gradient defines the colors in the spectrum to show as the angle of incidence to the Camera changes, and I didn't try to make it real-world accurate. In real life, it would also depend on the angle of incidence to the light source, but I didn't implement that.

    Good luck!
    mTp
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by MonroePoteet; 04-13-2019 at 05:32 PM. Reason: Better composite of MOV file

  5. #5
    I'm glad I spent hours making those material components videos no one watched...

  6. #6

    ah!  

    been there, done that.  

    it's important to split up the videos (like William Proton)
    and always have links available. (signature)

    ...even then you'll find that many will pass them by.
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  7. #7
    Last edited by erikals; 04-14-2019 at 01:55 AM.
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  8. #8
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonroePoteet View Post
    Yes, I think removing the Shaders in the Surfaces panel was quite a loss, with no BSDF replacement "shortcuts". I used FastFresnel, Edge Tranparency and ThinFilm very regularly.

    For LW2019 Principled BSDF, you may have some success setting up a node network with a rainbow-color Gradient based upon the Incidence angle to the Camera to feed the Subsurface Color and Subsurface Intensity. In this case, the Subsurface Distance was set to 10mm. A sample scene is attached.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Final_Render_000.jpg 
Views:	51 
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ID:	144733 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Final_Render_030.jpg 
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ID:	144734 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Final_Render_040.jpg 
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ID:	144735

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	144736 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Final_Render_080.jpg 
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ID:	144737 Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	144738

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Final_Render_100.jpg 
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ID:	144739

    MOV File: OilPuddle_IncidenceSubsurfaceColor.mov

    Here's the node setup:


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	01_ThinFilm_NodeSetup.jpg 
Views:	44 
Size:	1.30 MB 
ID:	144741

    This node network inverts the World Forward direction of the Camera by multiplying it by (-1,-1,-1), and uses that as the Vector for the Incidence angle. The two Incidence nodes are put through two Scalar Layer nodes which use Smoky procedurals to get a irregular pattern to the irridescence. The Pow nodes are to exaggerate the Indicence angle. If the Gradient keys are spread out more (note the range is from 0.0 to 0.2), then the irridescence will appear at a larger incidence angle.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	02_SubSurfaceVariations.jpg 
Views:	37 
Size:	1.31 MB 
ID:	144742 Smoky procedurals to get irreglar pattern

    The Gradient defines the colors in the spectrum to show as the angle of incidence to the Camera changes, and I didn't try to make it real-world accurate. In real life, it would also depend on the angle of incidence to the light source, but I didn't implement that.

    Good luck!
    mTp
    A typical example of where the statement "don´t be scared of nodes" makes no sense(think it was Deuce Bennet?) mentioning it once Lightwave 2018 came out.
    Whats wrong with a thin film shader or a dedicated materil that just needs to be applied than wrestling with a lot of nodes and figuring out how to acheive the effect, workflow going painstakingly at the wrong direction.

    That said..nothing wrong with your example here , it was just me reflecting on node workflow in general to acheive what we often could acheive easier in older versions of Lightwave.
    So thanks for sharing the sample of how to set this up with nodes.

    Or what if we had that thin film shader available in 2019, would you rather set this stuff up for scratch..once it is made you are sort of a little homefree maybe and can use it as a material preset.
    Benefits?

    Personally I think I would go with a mix of carpaint and dielectric , not sure though.

  9. #9
    Thanks Erikals. Alas, wasting time, as usual.

  10. #10

    tutorials / previews will always only help a small percentage, unfortunately.

    it will continue to be like that, until Ai creates an algorithm that forever solves it.
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  11. #11
    Super Member Qexit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    tutorials / previews will always only help a small percentage, unfortunately.

    it will continue to be like that, until Ai creates an algorithm that forever solves it.
    Hehe, so far only Skynet has come up with an algorithm that solves the problem known as 'users' forever
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  12. #12
    Registered User TinkerManne's Avatar
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    I appreciate all the replies. Looking into the suggestions. Also, thanks to Tobian, I missed a couple, will be checking out your vids again. Thanks for the time and effort, guys!

  13. #13
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    The basic problem with HOURS of material component videos (or reading the entire LW manual, or going through RebelHill's extensive videos) is that it is a "breadth first" approach to the available information (i.e. a broad-spectrum overview intended for general understanding of the domain), whereas the original question was a "depth first search" of the information (I've got a *specific problem* to resolve, how do I do so?).

    I'd guess the original poster is in the middle of a project, fairly stoked about what he's accomplished so far, and has a one issue to be resolved. Maybe he can use my (apparently extraneous?) node network for a quick resolution and allocate the time to go through HOURS of videos to find the simpler(?) answer a little later!

    mTp

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    A typical example of where the statement "don´t be scared of nodes" makes no sense(think it was Deuce Bennet?) mentioning it once Lightwave 2018 came out.
    Whats wrong with a thin film shader or a dedicated materil that just needs to be applied than wrestling with a lot of nodes and figuring out how to acheive the effect, workflow going painstakingly at the wrong direction.

    That said..nothing wrong with your example here , it was just me reflecting on node workflow in general to acheive what we often could acheive easier in older versions of Lightwave.
    So thanks for sharing the sample of how to set this up with nodes.

    Or what if we had that thin film shader available in 2019, would you rather set this stuff up for scratch..once it is made you are sort of a little homefree maybe and can use it as a material preset.
    Benefits?

    Personally I think I would go with a mix of carpaint and dielectric , not sure though.
    I cannot agree more. Since LW is clearly going down the nodal path, I think that LWDG desparately needs to assign a full-time developer whose only responsibility is building an extensive library of "convenience nodes", and a LOT of them.

    It literally took about 3 seconds to apply the pre-LW2018 Thin Film shader, and maybe Tobian or another expert knows a 2-second method of doing so in LW2019.

    mTp

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobian View Post
    I'm glad I spent hours making those material components videos no one watched...
    Yeah - that's what I thought as well when I saw this thread yesterday but didn't have the time to respond. Plus the 1st page of the LW documentation -https://docs.lightwave3d.com/lw2019 - shows a sample from the get go. I appreciate your efforts Andrew and have gone over them on several occasions.
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