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Thread: how to achieve fast workflow in LW 2019+ : what features would you want ?

  1. #1
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    how to achieve fast workflow in LW 2019+ : what features would you want ?

    Identify the shortcomings in your everyday workflow and present a desired solution.

  2. #2
    For what we do Layout is almost perfect so my comments will be about Modeler. First and foremost Modeler needs to be able to handle more polygons and a better representation of textures and procedurals in the openGL viewports. Second it needs a consolidation of tools. Third a real workplane not the hack they got now. Let's start there. To be honest, even though I hardly ever use it anymore, copy a lot of Modo's modeling workflows and Modeler will come to the top of the heap in modeling again.
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    Super Member JohnMarchant's Avatar
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    Modeler and its tools need to be completely overhauled. Many tools do similar jobs and many could be substantially enhanced. I would agree look at how Modo and LWCad in LW do it. But overall modeler needs to handle more polys smarter and proper representation of textures in OGL.
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    In some ways I think LW 2018 took some steps backward in the surfacing workflow. Now that it's mandatory to go through the node editor, there is no longer a fast, convenient way to apply images, normal maps, etc; as it requires a few more steps to do. This is tedious in larger scenes without some form of automation in place, and it is less user friendly because new users now have to learn two interfaces in order to utilize lightwave's surfacing functions. In the future, i'd like to see the old interface make its way into other node types than standard; even if all it does it create and hook up the nodes for you.

    There's modeler too but... that's so obvious it hurts.
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    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Roye View Post
    In some ways I think LW 2018 took some steps backward in the surfacing workflow. Now that it's mandatory to go through the node editor, there is no longer a fast, convenient way to apply images, normal maps, etc; as it requires a few more steps to do. This is tedious in larger scenes without some form of automation in place, and it is less user friendly because new users now have to learn two interfaces in order to utilize lightwave's surfacing functions. In the future, i'd like to see the old interface make its way into other node types than standard; even if all it does it create and hook up the nodes for you.

    There's modeler too but... that's so obvious it hurts.
    I agree, but not only for surfacing, I feel the same for setting up volumetrics, where we lack the direct drop down list to add hypertexture, you have to go to edit nodes, add your node plug it in to the right slot, and this YOU HAVE TO KNOW..
    while the old hv, just go to hypertexture and choose desired procedural, done.

    And the hypertexture speed effect is gone..you Have to set up a null and reference it.

    And..with the old single hv module window, you didnīt have to select your item to edit it, that is a must for the new volumetrics, and as such..you can not move other items around in the scene at the same time, you loose your volumetric properties and the settings within.

    And the direct vpr animation preview is gone, takes some more steps to render a preview..not impossible though.

    And we can not use volumetrics on points as old hv was able to, not without adding particles on to it.

    And random scaling was a breeze to just slide the random scalar value in old hv, with new volumetrics you have to either add a random node, or change particle scale in the emitter itself..itīs wonky.

    Apart from the workflow of setting it up, I like the realism of it and it Enhances volumetrics in one way..realistic lighting(except for that I miss better deep multiscattering), and using several nulls and cloning will not halt your system as old hv did.

    So summing it up(for volumetrics), workflow turned out not so good..sacrificing the setup speed of volumetrics, and sacrificing the ease of use, especially for newbies, while rendering realism in shading lighting, and edge softness and render speed has become better, as well as getting cubic shape in there.


    I think I have a thread about the newly added multiprocedural node, which should allow for switching procedurals without breaking the connections, when you have output to multiple input in the shader, that may be good, but
    these procedurals lacks some things like invert, and the multiprocedural node requires to enter another button and popup window "options" for tweaking itīs finer settings, I find it frustrating...and that particular setting is
    also easy to get hidden behind other window popup items, and hard to bring to front even if you stand on the main multiprocedural node.

    I may think it would be wiser to have a switch node, wich could consist of pre-made connected procedural nodes, in to a switch..then you simpley bypass or activate the node you need...this would allow for clicking on any of the procedural nodes and tweak them as they are normally without having to enter options, and with the invert option intact.

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    I think modeling in the perspective view could be improved.

    Modeling along the view plane doesn't make sense for many things, where modeling along the ground plane, or along tangent space would be much more intuitive.
    For example, just drawing out a rectangle would be much simpler and intuitive if it worked along the ground plane.
    Extruding would be much simpler along a normal

    - - - Updated - - -

    Agreed on consolidation of modeling tools.

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    They really should make it possible to expose nodal inputs in the main window (surfacing, volumetrics, motion etc.) i shouldn’t need to open a node network to change a single scalar value, change an item reference, or swap a texture. They should also improve preset capabilities (let me make a node network, expose the inputs I want, and save it so it is accessible in a drop down). If they did this and included a whole host of nodal presets that users could just use or open up and play around with it would be pretty great.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Roye View Post
    In some ways I think LW 2018 took some steps backward in the surfacing workflow. Now that it's mandatory to go through the node editor, there is no longer a fast, convenient way to apply images, normal maps, etc; as it requires a few more steps to do. This is tedious in larger scenes without some form of automation in place, and it is less user friendly because new users now have to learn two interfaces in order to utilize lightwave's surfacing functions. In the future, i'd like to see the old interface make its way into other node types than standard; even if all it does it create and hook up the nodes for you.

    There's modeler too but... that's so obvious it hurts.
    Great post.
    This message does not reflect the opinions of the US Government, CG Networks or CGTALK.com. The opinions expressed on this posting are on my own volition.

  9. #9
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hypersuperduper View Post
    They really should make it possible to expose nodal inputs in the main window (surfacing, volumetrics, motion etc.) i shouldn’t need to open a node network to change a single scalar value, change an item reference, or swap a texture. They should also improve preset capabilities (let me make a node network, expose the inputs I want, and save it so it is accessible in a drop down). If they did this and included a whole host of nodal presets that users could just use or open up and play around with it would be pretty great.

  10. #10
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    I actually love the node setup. I don't see how you could expose all the different hooks in a menu or window layout, that would be a mess to manage. And if you have to delete or add nodes, having to manage which hooks to expose in a window layout, etc. how big a window would you need? The size of the existing node window? I have node graphs on second monitor and make changes or add/delete nodes as needed and go about other things on the other monitor. Nodes are easier in my opinion, just like compositing w/ nodes is far superior than layers.
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    Exposing an input would have to be an option, sort of like when you add inputs to a compound node. That works quite well. I imagine it looking sort of like a motion modifier in the “parent” window. Depending on the number of options exposed it could appear under the motion options like motion baker or if it had more options it would open a dedicated window like relativity. Obviously for advanced nodal work you would still work in the node editor, but for simple setups, or things you reuse a lot but with slightly different settings It would be nice to do this. Particularly when it comes to nodal motion where I tend to be applying nodal motion to lots different objects often largely identical setups but pointing at different items. And having everything hidden in the nodal network means that I can’t see at a glance what a network does. I need to open it.

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    I guess there could be some middle ground within certain use cases. I was leary if setup became to complex.
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  13. #13
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
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    XSI ICE did a fine job of that, letting you build node networks and expose certain inputs to a "panel" interface. For most reusable networks, you only ever want a half dozen items at most to present directly to the user, more than that and you're getting into the territory where you really want to be editing the node tree itself. Though that said, in the odd case where you do want a long list of options exposed... there're scrollbars to keep the panel size itself neat.
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    This would be great. Xsi had it right for sure. I don’t know why more nodal software doesn’t just copy the render tree/ice
    Last edited by stoecklem; 03-20-2019 at 06:23 PM.

  15. #15
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
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    Because most interface designers and software developers want to feel a sense of ownership and creativity over what they make... to have their own original input be thing that makes something what it is.

    Kinda like asking why more animation studios dont just remake Toy Story.
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