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Thread: What market should LW be concentrating from now on? Tell us your ideas.

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Ztreem View Post
    You can also say it like this.
    Just about every studio is using an app designed for modeling, mainly other apps than LW.
    Just about every studio is using an app designed for animation, mainly other apps than LW.
    Just about every studio is using an app designed for rendering, mainly other apps than LW.
    Why waste the resources?
    Wow - that's cold.
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  2. #122
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayek View Post
    @VonBon

    Modeling hasn't been Lightwave's strength for a very long time now, and it is lagging (far) behind all other main 3d packages.
    Sculpting is an integral part of all competitors (except Max, I believe), and having the option to sculpt (outside of dedicated apps like 3dCoat and zBrush) is that it is extra-ordinarily handy for all sorts of modeling jobs. Often there is just no need to rely on a powerhouse like zBrush. No need to switch software, just sculpt away in your DCC 3d generalist app, and done. Super handy. In a unified app, of course.

    No, a good sculpting mode or tool set is part of a common modeling toolset now. I use it all the time for small jobs where other approaches are too slow or inefficient. If Lightwave hopes to compete in terms of modeling ever again, it will need to be integrated somehow. They already have Chronosculpt. They have the tech. But the LW dev team either hasn't had time to integrate it, or management decided it is not worth the effort at this point for some reason.

    I do agree television and broadcast VFX seems to vibe well with Lightwave. Perhaps Newtek should just focus on Layout alone from now on (which they have pretty much done anyway in the past decade or longer). But that would probably drive LW users to other packages. So modeling needs a heavy update. A considerable one.

    In the end these discussions always seem to steer us to one best solution: unification. Just unify the damn app. Focus on broadcast graphics/VFX. Make modeling non-destructive. Add something like a Mograph derivative. Leech unhappy C4D users - C4D is way too expensive for many.

    PS and rendering needs a GPU option to be viewed again as a major strength in Lightwave.

    Since Lightwave seem to have Vibed well with broadcast tv, and set extensions it seems...I think camera tracking within Lightwave should be a thing that would enhance itīs position in relation to that.
    But as I am aware of..there isnīt much of it internally, not sure how it competes against blenders ...I still have loads to learn on this area.
    But maybe if they could get that going within Lightwave, and at the same time expand and revive neuron motion to be closely connected to lightwave even more and camera tracking, they could have something
    really sweet and with production value....just guessing

  3. #123

    LightWave shouldn't copy Blender,
    or other apps,

    LightWave should find its own niche, whatever that is.
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  4. #124
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    LightWave shouldn't copy Blender,
    or other apps,

    LightWave should find its own niche, whatever that is.
    What niche, making people frustrated..you said whatever that is, and its a win scenario

    sorry ...couldnīt resist, I urge the lightwave people to just laugh at it, and especially the Lightwave and Newtek team..itīs not That serious.

    Canīt say I can agree with not copy Blender...so much in this industry requires similar tech, but with slightly different approach..as well in workflow.
    I would say copying blender stuff may be Essential to catch up and go beyond.

    I think the VDB stuff The lightwave team has started to implement, which may be something they can expand on, do it good and perhaps better than other software..and in the future maybe take a leading role, but if they decide...we have done enough for a while now, letīs go for modeler now and drop VDB, then they get nowhere on that area, so that is the problem when we already know they have to work on modeling tools.
    Guess itīs about resources.

    To me the new VDB stuff looks interesting and cool for sure, but slow, and with convoluted workflow..that could improve in speed, and get consolidated in to VFX tools for converting stuff, or dragging pre-made setups to the scene from a shelf ala houdini.

  5. #125

    Canīt say I can agree with not copy Blender...
    i meant of course, to not copy the entire Blender workflow.
    by all means, STEAL.
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  6. #126
    The fact is, Lightwave, being a generalist tool, could go in any direction. But there are no-brainer strategies for Newtek, like implementing broadcasting, "mograph" style capabilities to connect somehow with Tricaster. On that note, gaming tools would seem to be something that would easily follow, along with an improvement to modeler. I agree with some people that 2019 is a good step forward, but it feels like it's actually 2018.5 since modeler was barely worked on. OpenVDB authoring is a big sell for me, and connection to Unreal. Still, LW just needs focus and I believe it's getting there. I'm really crossing my fingers for LW 2020 comprehensive Modeler improvements.
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  7. #127
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    I'd rather Lightwave actually specialize in something.
    All that is powerful or long standing is first conceived in the imagination; supported by the hope of possibility and then made manifest in our commitment of our current physical reality.

  8. #128
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    I don't understand why people are constantly bashing on Lightwave. My personal opinion is Lightwave is very fast and has a lot of strong points. IK Booster, Spline IK, Chronosculpt, the bandsaw tool, genoma, it does fast weight mapping - I've tried it in other applications and in other applications you spend more time getting a weight map right. I also don't understand why everyone is bashing about the layout - modeller and not one application thing. For me that is just a strong point for a clean workflow, you prepare your model in modeller and get it on stage in layout. They've made fbx alembic and mdd and collada work. For me the combo Lightwave - Houdini is very nice, because they are on the opposite of the spectrum. There are things that you can do very fast in Lightwave 80% of the work and 20% of the specialised vfx animation you could do in Houdini. I wouldn't like to model in Houdini although it's procedural, it's like cleaning your toilet with a toothbrush. Lightwave has it's strong points and let's keep it that way, they made it 'play well with other applications'. I honestly don't understand why everyone is always complaining. I would like to see TAFA facial animation in Lightwave that would be nice. That's my humble opinion.

  9. #129

    I would like to see TAFA facial animation in Lightwave that would be nice. That's my humble opinion.
    i asked Mac but he said he was more interested in having it Stand-alone.
    certainly wouldn't hurt for them to ask though.

    try >
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  10. #130
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    For me...focus on getting modeling tools in to layout as well as improving already existing modelling tools, then improving undo and UI.
    By modeling tools in layout I also want them to focus on airbrush and paint tools in Layout that works for most tools across the layout vfx platform, foremost weight painting and sculpting (metamorphic is a start..but isnīt on par with blender sculpting which can create new dynatopo) metamorphic has a nice thing about mixing a sculpted area with with procedurals in easy ways.

    Weight emission for fluids and particles needs a connection to all paint tools.
    These airbrush tools need to be able to paint instances, sculpt brushing of hair, paint maps for part destruction, and fluid and emitter emission.

    Then of course, the render speedn in cpu needs improving, especially with the hair system..perhaps after all look in to GPU solution natively.

    Ops..I read the topic wrong, itīs w what market, not what development phase they need to focus on...sorry.

  11. #131
    To answer the question:

    Lightwave is and will always be a generalists's application. You use it when you are touching many different disciplines in the 3d industry, but are not committed to any single one.

    That said,

    Lightwave can't pick a market and go after it because it has no effective means of marketing its content in its current state. In order for that to happen, things need to change:

    - Lightwave cannot depend solely on existing user sales like it has over the last 10 years. It will never grow this way.

    - They need a content developer who can readily make learning materials, examples, marketing, etc that clearly, effectively demonstrates the strengths of the application. Lightwave has always been about immediacy, and that should be made very clear when publishing content. William Vaughan left some big shoes to fill.

    - They need a revenue stream outside of their main product. They should be offering content packs and other stuff guaranteed to work with Lightwave directly through their website.
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  12. #132

    William Vaughan
    i'd love to see someone like Vaughan demo-ing LightWave again.

    also, good LightWave upgrades would work as marketing, with help from NT of course.
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  13. #133
    Big fan of coffee raw-m's Avatar
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    Don’t think it needs to concentrate on a market, but what it it does need is regular, open communication......... and loads of enthusiasm! Love these dev talks, a real passion for the software which can only nurture confidence and strengthen brand:


  14. #134
    Super Member Chris S. (Fez)'s Avatar
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    I think it's going to take a significant Modeler update to once again effectively market Lightwave as a modern viable jack-of-all-trades tool.

    If integration is not happening then LW needs consistently vastly improved viewport performance in Layout. It is super fast for some things and super slow for others. Marketing 2020 would be so much easier if it finally shows off the unique advantages of the new Hydra engine.

    And a variety of real time rendering improvements, some hopefully derived from Vizrt tech. The competition for VPR has exploded.

    And maybe open the Beta. Blender is open. Autodesk is open for current customers. Get your customers involved and excited about the future.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curly_01 View Post
    I don't understand why people are constantly bashing on Lightwave. My personal opinion is Lightwave is very fast and has a lot of strong points. IK Booster, Spline IK, Chronosculpt, the bandsaw tool, genoma, it does fast weight mapping - I've tried it in other applications and in other applications you spend more time getting a weight map right. I also don't understand why everyone is bashing about the layout - modeller and not one application thing. For me that is just a strong point for a clean workflow, you prepare your model in modeller and get it on stage in layout. They've made fbx alembic and mdd and collada work. For me the combo Lightwave - Houdini is very nice, because they are on the opposite of the spectrum. There are things that you can do very fast in Lightwave 80% of the work and 20% of the specialised vfx animation you could do in Houdini. I wouldn't like to model in Houdini although it's procedural, it's like cleaning your toilet with a toothbrush. Lightwave has it's strong points and let's keep it that way, they made it 'play well with other applications'. I honestly don't understand why everyone is always complaining. I would like to see TAFA facial animation in Lightwave that would be nice. That's my humble opinion.
    1) Very fast --> wrong, it's the slowest 3D application I use. Slow OpenGL viewport, slow deformations, slow render. Poly modeling is also not faster than others (except Houdini which is not a good example for modeling).

    2) IK Booster, seriously? The most unintuitive character animation implementation I've seen ever seen.

    3) Bandsaw? So outdated and horrible to use. What about a universal Knife tool like in other applications with realtime preview that can optionally re-use and distribute cuts much easier, respects loops, curvature, tension, symmetry, poles, loop ranges, quantization, profiles etc. Oh and a Knife tool that replaces the various redundant tools like Knife, Cut, Julienne, BandSaw, Slice, Divide, QuickSaw, QuickCut etc etc.

    4) Chronosculpt? A very fast geometry engine but a separate product that never got any feature enhancement from its initial functionality which is very basic. NewTek claimes that the Hydra engine is now part of LW but there is really nothing to see from that. The "new" geometry engine in LW2018+ is very disappointing.

    5) Genoma, well it would be ok if implemented in Layout. Rhiggit is better but other rigging tools I know are much more user friendly.

    6) Weight Painting in LW? Other applications have auto character weighting and much better painting tools, available everywhere in the application. Layout still has no Weight Paint functionality that actually works out of the box, the one in Metamorphic is too slow to use (surprise, surprise).

    7) Alembic? How have they made it work when it's still broken in LW? Have you ever used it? Besides that other implementations offer interpolation, sub frame motion blur, retiming and many other features in import and export.

    8) FBX? Several issues with importing FBX rigged meshes that work fine in other applications. Again, other applications offer many more features like curves, markers, instances, substances, LOD etc.

    These are just some points you brought up, there are much bigger ones that are way more problematic in LW.

    Maybe you understand now why people are complaining.
    Last edited by Marander; 06-01-2019 at 01:00 PM.

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