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Thread: Can't get rid of white line on the right side

  1. #1
    Registered User stanarthur's Avatar
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    Can't get rid of white line on the right side

    Please watch this example of the live programs I do:
    https://youtu.be/kcM1JOZIfRQ

    Notice the very thin white line on the right side of both people? This only started happening when I switched from an older standard analog TriCaster to a TriCaster Mini SDI with Advanced Edition software. I have already determined that the problem is not with my cameras or the lighting.

    Any suggestions you have are appreciated.
    TriCaster Mini SDI Advanced Edition 2 Build 5-1-180323C
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  2. #2
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    Please try something - grab a few of the Newtek sample green screen clips of Kiki and Rex - can you achieve a clean key with those from the DDR?

    If so, turn OFF the DDR keyer, and LOOP the green clip out of Mini DDR and back in via SDI cable to simulate a camera source - now key that looped input. How does that look?

    If you can get decent results in both cases, then the camera and lighting deserve a second look.

    Is it possible that you could share a short sample clip of the footage you are working with, so that others can check it out and look for potential issues? That will be most helpful in finding a resolution.

    I did a client demo last week, and we hung a green sheet on the wall and used only bad flourescent office lighting from the ceiling for light. Also, the camera was a PTZ1 via NDI-HX which is a very highly-compressed source signal, and we got decent green screen results that do not exhibit the issues you are experiencing at all. You don't just have a white edge, but right edge is also very jaggedy.

    Your issue could be not enough chroma in the source signal. Meaning yes the green screen looks green to the eye, but in reality is maybe washed out and not really a vibrant green as the camera sees it. If you can't provide a short video clip, perhaps a still GRAB of that source?

    Thanks

    Jeff
    Jeff Pulera
    Streaming Broadcast Solutions - Newtek Elite

    TriCasters: Mini with AE, TC1
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  3. #3
    Registered User Stream's Avatar
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    I get that as well sometimes.
    I can usually get rid of it with careful adjustments inside of the livematte keyer and color section.
    Also careful camera adjustment also helps.

    Also, on the woman, the tolerance and smoothing are set to try and get a good key on her hair.
    If her hair was a bit tighter, I bet it would be easier to get that white line to disappear.
    Last edited by Stream; 02-27-2019 at 12:50 PM.
    Tricaster 460 Advanced Edition 2, Tricaster 40 V1
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    Looks like you need to do some fine tuning of live matte settings.

    Additionally, I'm wondering if you're feeding an interlaced camera feed into a progressive session or vise versa, as the edges that are keying out nicely still look very jagged.

  5. #5
    Registered User AMathews16's Avatar
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    We had this as well. The issue is the green screen is too bright/brilliant (ProCyc). We took a sample of green that Uniset recommends literally put the cut out right behind our subject and the white line disappeared. The subject was right up against the Uniset green and showed no white lines or issues with having the subject a specific distance from green. So with the right colored green paint, you shouldn't have the issue.
    Austen Mathews
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  6. #6
    Registered User Red Dog Records's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMathews16 View Post
    We had this as well. The issue is the green screen is too bright/brilliant (ProCyc). We took a sample of green that Uniset recommends literally put the cut out right behind our subject and the white line disappeared. The subject was right up against the Uniset green and showed no white lines or issues with having the subject a specific distance from green. So with the right colored green paint, you shouldn't have the issue.
    What color did Uniset recommend?
    Tricaster 460AE3 + LC-11
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  7. #7
    If the Mini is running 5-1-180323, I'd try updating to the current AE2 version. If I recall correctly, there was some adjustments in the chroma keyer at some point with AE2 a while back, but I don't recall what version that was. AE3 also includes a new version of LiveMatte called LiveMatte Pro.
    Kane Peterson
    Solutions Architect
    NewTek, Inc.

  8. #8
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    Kane, this is what I was asking about on the AE3 training video thread to see if the improvements to the Key had fixed this.

    Heres there pics
    Quote Originally Posted by Johan Folke View Post
    I've prepared some more images to better illustrate the issue. Again, this is intended to illustrate the issue and not proper green screen lighting set-up. I pulled a key in the Tricaster and then tried to match the settings in Keylight, After Effects. On one of the samples I also applied a small chroma blur using the Magic Bullet Deartifactor. As you can see, applying some chroma blur helped get rid of most of the dark halo around the white shirt. Even without chroma blur, there is much less of a dark edge in the Keylight sample. Most importantly, the edge is pread evenly across the subject and not just on the right side. I also attached the original green screen shot if anyone wants to try this themselves.

    Attachment 142231Attachment 142232Attachment 142233Attachment 142234


    Here's what Across from engineering said

    Quote Originally Posted by ACross View Post
    > “why is there an edge there on the right side?” from our clients, I feel this is an issue worth acting on since it could actually impact our business in the long run.

    I am not disagreeing at all, I just don't want to talk about the plans for the keyer on the forum

    The reason it is on the right edge is because of chroma positioning in 4:2:2 color space. It is in the center of a pixel, so if you look at an image you have two luminance pixels :

    |Y0|Y1|
    |--C--|


    The C is positioned slightly to the right on average as a result. I will look at this.

    We were talking about it in the AE3 video, but I think it got lost in the noise. As this is a key specific thread then maybe this is a better area to discuss. I should be getting AE3 in the next few days regardless, but it would be good to know if the changes to the keyer that ACross was talking about have gotten rid of the line.

  9. #9
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    Answering my own question. Key's improved in AE3. Loving your work.

  10. #10
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    Stan??
    Jeff Pulera
    Streaming Broadcast Solutions - Newtek Elite

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  11. #11
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    I to am experiencing similar issues as described above. The attachments within dtweek post shows the same problem I have.
    No matter how I Key with Live Matte, I get a black with also white outline, predominately on the right side of the talent.
    Im using TC-1 v7 (not Advanced Edition) at 1080 50P. Any pointers on this would help. CheersClick image for larger version. 

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  12. #12
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    If you have a recording of the camera feed before keying, would be helpful to see the original image with green. The TriCaster keyer has always worked very well, so these issues are typically related to lighting or green color used. Please load up a few of the Newtek sample green video clips into the DDR and try keying those. If you don't see the same issue, then it's a studio/camera/lighting issue and not TriCaster.

    Thanks

    Jeff
    Jeff Pulera
    Streaming Broadcast Solutions - Newtek Elite

    TriCasters: Mini with AE, TC1
    Camera: Sony PMW-X70 4K
    Controllers: All variety of XKeys
    PTZ: Newtek NDIHX-PTZ1

  13. #13
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    Thanks Jeff,
    As you said it could be down to the green background / lighting.
    The Newtek DDR samples for Chroma Key work ok, but with the cameras it was giving the issues as stated.
    The setup is not mine. I have been asked to operate it. The Chroma green curtain has probably faded over time.

  14. #14
    Registered User Red Dog Records's Avatar
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    I know this is an old thread, but we are also getting the same lines even using the NewTek clips. The lines are subtle, but when we try to tweak the settings, Rex's grey suit and hair starts to fade out or the black/white line on the right side becomes more obvious.
    Perhaps because the clips are interlaced and our session is 1080p?

    We are running AE3, and I know updates were made to the keyer.
    Anyone have any new info regarding this or perhaps we need to re-apply our update?

    Andrew
    Tricaster 460AE3 + LC-11
    Flypack: Router, switch, backup encoders, captioning devices, audio mixer, UPS, etc
    Cameras: Sony Z280, Z150, Spark & Bird Dog converters
    http://reddogrecords.com

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