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Thread: GPU / CPU Denoiser Test in LW 2019

  1. #1
    Nothing ado about much Exception's Avatar
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    GPU / CPU Denoiser Test in LW 2019

    HI all,

    I didn't expect much from the new GPU denoiser that was added in 2019, since all the denoisers LW has had (and most other tools I know) have been pretty dismal to the point of completely useless. But I thought to give it a try when I read up that it was based on Deep Learning and AI instead of the traditional approach. And boy, does it matter.

    Summary conclusion of result:
    • GPU Denoiser: Fan bleeding tastic. In my test I could cut render times by 75% and have almost exactly the same results as trying to solve noise with denoiser off. This means you can assign sample calculations to other areas such as AA instead, or simple, just sit there with the win of your 75% lower render time.
    • CPU Denoiser: Still unbearable, and pretty much useless. Also its convoluted use by having to turn it on in two different places in the UI is aggravating.



    No Denoiser




    GPU Denoiser




    CPU Denoiser




    Denoise using extra samples only
    Just for comparison's sake, below is a render with an attempt to denoise using extra samples to an acceptable level. This bumped the MC samples to 3 from 1, and the AA to 6-26 (instead of 4-8). Render time of this was 12m40 seconds. Render time of the above was 3m05s, including denoise for both GPU and CPU. That is a more than 75% gain, and the result is even less noise.

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    Last edited by Exception; 02-24-2019 at 01:12 AM.

  2. #2
    In my opinion user should have option to turn off GPU denoiser on chosen buffer, especially on raw rgb (with result in final render).
    Examples with GPU denoiser OFF/ON:
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  3. #3
    Nothing ado about much Exception's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusM View Post
    In my opinion user should have option to turn off GPU denoiser on chosen buffer, especially on raw rgb (with result in final render).
    Examples with GPU denoiser OFF/ON:
    Yes that may really help. I also noticed small details disappearing. That would also leave the edge shaded render lines sharp. Have you sent that in as a feature request or bug report?
    Still though, amazing results.

  4. #4
    Almost newbie Cageman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusM View Post
    In my opinion user should have option to turn off GPU denoiser on chosen buffer, especially on raw rgb (with result in final render).
    Examples with GPU denoiser OFF/ON:
    It works like that allready?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusM View Post
    In my opinion user should have option to turn off GPU denoiser on chosen buffer, especially on raw rgb (with result in final render).
    Examples with GPU denoiser OFF/ON:
    It works like that allready?
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Exception View Post
    Yes that may really help. I also noticed small details disappearing. That would also leave the edge shaded render lines sharp. Have you sent that in as a feature request or bug report?
    Still though, amazing results.
    I did not send feature request. For sure developers know about that things and maybe this is not possible. Your CPU denoiser test have propably turned off nice option Poly Normal Tolerance.
    Image filter plugin PSD Export should have all new buffers built in and then in PS user could use Surface Blur tool I made test with PSD Export and it export only linear color, not sRGB. No matter what Layout color space I choose. Is it a bug?

    BTW I would like to see more things for game dev and there is many things to add in that field.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cageman View Post
    It works like that allready?
    This is just small test how GPU denoiser treat details on texture.
    Last edited by MarcusM; 02-25-2019 at 06:45 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusM View Post
    In my opinion user should have option to turn off GPU denoiser on chosen buffer, especially on raw rgb (with result in final render).
    Examples with GPU denoiser OFF/ON:
    To do this, we'd need to have internal compositing in LW, Currently the buffers system works by performing the render, and extracting the buffers from it, not the other way round. Not that it wouldn't be cool or desirable, but that's quite a lot of extra work.

  7. #7
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    be cool if the densoiser could be called from a node, then dpont kit could be used to filter per render channel.

    of course, having a mask there that filtered all but specified would be the go.

    chat elsewhere about the merits of inversion within a node. perfect example.

    i think node based render pass setup would be most intuitive to the end user, too.

    oh, here we go, something similar mentioned here https://forums.newtek.com/showthread...DPont-Denoiser
    Last edited by gar26lw; 02-25-2019 at 11:24 AM.

  8. #8
    geo messy madno's Avatar
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    An evening mood test with pure BF GI and the new LW 2019 sky.
    In this case the denoiser works nice for uniform areas, but it has a hard time to keep the details.
    The attached render took 2h someting on a dual Xeon 32 thread machine and used 400 BF samples. Unfortunately the details on the plank tectures and the lower part of the curtains are still gone in some areas (zoom in).
    But, like I understood it, indoor GI is always a challange not only in LW.

    (had not enabled Despike - maybe that would have cured the fireflies).

    Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #9

    for DeNoise in 2019, also see this Gerardo thread >
    https://forums.newtek.com/showthread...11#post1560511
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  10. #10
    www.Digitawn.co.uk rustythe1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madno View Post
    An evening mood test with pure BF GI and the new LW 2019 sky.
    In this case the denoiser works nice for uniform areas, but it has a hard time to keep the details.
    The attached render took 2h someting on a dual Xeon 32 thread machine and used 400 BF samples. Unfortunately the details on the plank tectures and the lower part of the curtains are still gone in some areas (zoom in).
    But, like I understood it, indoor GI is always a challange not only in LW.

    (had not enabled Despike - maybe that would have cured the fireflies).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	007_r-state_BF-400_MinSa-6_GI-3.jpg 
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ID:	144234

    Click image for larger version. 

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    you might want to purchase the rebilhill tutorials, one of the courses is setting up this scene to render in a few mins, his tutorials will teach you a lot about rendering in general, lots of hidden tips throughout,

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by madno View Post
    An evening mood test with pure BF GI and the new LW 2019 sky.
    In this case the denoiser works nice for uniform areas, but it has a hard time to keep the details.
    The attached render took 2h someting on a dual Xeon 32 thread machine and used 400 BF samples. Unfortunately the details on the plank tectures and the lower part of the curtains are still gone in some areas (zoom in).
    But, like I understood it, indoor GI is always a challange not only in LW.

    (had not enabled Despike - maybe that would have cured the fireflies).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	007_r-state_BF-400_MinSa-6_GI-3.jpg 
Views:	160 
Size:	1.12 MB 
ID:	144234

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	007_2h15m.jpg 
Views:	172 
Size:	875.5 KB 
ID:	144235
    you might want to purchase the rebilhill tutorials, one of the courses is setting up this scene to render in a few mins, his tutorials will teach you a lot about rendering in general, lots of hidden tips throughout,
    Intel i9 7980xe, Asus Rampage Vi extreme, 2x NVIDIA GTX1070ti, 64GB DDR4 3200 corsair vengeance,
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  11. #11
    geo messy madno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustythe1 View Post
    you might want to purchase the rebilhill tutorials, one of the courses is setting up this scene to render in a few mins, his tutorials will teach you a lot about rendering in general, lots of hidden tips throughout,

    Do you have an example render of this scene (was posted some time ago to download) rendered in a few miutes? I am in the stage of finding other solutions but would be happy to get a hint that LW can do it.

  12. #12
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
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    This animated shot of the scene...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s61U0iczvkw&t=1m52s

    was about 25mins/frame on 6 thread phenomII.
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  13. #13
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    Wink

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    Hello RebelHill,

    I see two errors important enough even if it is to save time to render.
    The problem "no detail", I also have on all the tests that I did and impossible to have the details even with large parameter of GI.
    This is one of the problems on the lightwave rendering engine ..


  14. #14
    Almost newbie Cageman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobian View Post
    To do this, we'd need to have internal compositing in LW, Currently the buffers system works by performing the render, and extracting the buffers from it, not the other way round. Not that it wouldn't be cool or desirable, but that's quite a lot of extra work.
    GPU/CPU denoiser are filters. You can tell wich buffer should recieve Noise filters already.

    Or, are we seeing a bug where this checkbox doesn't work?

    EDIT: Or, are some users still believing that LW "beauty pass" are a composite of internal buffers? If that is the case... Yes, that is not possible now. I havn't heard of any renders that works like that though...

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    Last edited by Cageman; 02-26-2019 at 04:43 PM.
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  15. #15

    "no detail"
    yes, LW engine can be like that as far as i know, especially with interpolated.

    as for the glass reflection, i didn't notice anything, could you elaborate?
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