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Thread: Why so little orgainzed training?

  1. #1

    Why so little orgainzed training?

    Hi, all. I'm still functioning at the beginner level, and I need all the help I can get, AND I have received a lot of it right here, thanks, folks. But it would be helpful to have more organized , up-to-date tutorials arranged more systematically, as in, for example, Lynda.com? I just spent about half an hour at Lynda.com scouring the site for 3D learning packages. I can report that every single 3D application I've heard of, and quite few I haven't, is represented on that site. But not Lightwave. That in spite of the fact that I have actually encountered Lynda.com-labeled lightwave tutorials when researching a specific topic. Can anyone explain that?
    BC

  2. #2
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    I can only speak from my own experience and say that I completely understand and sympathise with you.

    I have been a long time user of Lightwave (I started with Lightwave 5) and like you found official learning resources in a structured way completely absent. So what I did was buy some books that were available at the time, to teach me.

    These days there are no up to date books on the latest versions of Lightwave but the thing is, that old ones are still very relevant in providing the fundamentals as well as covering more advanced topics.

    The three I'd recommend are:

    1) Inside LightWave v9 by Dan Ablan and published by New Riders - ISBN-10: 0321426843 or ISBN-13: 978-0321426840

    and to take you to the next level....

    2) Essential Lightwave V9: The Fastest and Easiest Way to Master LightWave by Steve Warner, Kevin Phillips and Timothy Albee. Published by Wordware Publishing Inc. - ISBN-10: 1598220241 or ISBN-13: 978-1598220247

    To get grips with nodes and (Standard) surface and texturing there can only be one book.

    3) LightWave V9 Texturing by Angel Nieves, published by Wordware Game and Graphics Library - ISBN-10: 1598220292 or ISBN-13: 978-1598220292

    Get and study from these books (make sure you get the DVDs for them) and you'll be as clued up as the rest of us in no time.

  3. #3
    Male Modeler ccclarke's Avatar
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    Lynda used to have Lightwave content, but it went away awhile ago. It's likely there just isn't any money in it for them to sponsor other creator's tutorials. In the last ten years, Lightwave's popularity has plummeted as other 3D apps have gained traction. While LW does many things well and has a good UI making it much easier to learn, significant, meaningful improvements have lagged and many professional users have moved on to other platforms. (Modeling and Rigging being prime examples.)

    As LW goes more nodal, I predict increasing numbers of the hobbyists who have sustained the app will be less likely to upgrade and rely on older versions of the software to get their work completed. More emphasis on nodal training is required to sustain the user base. Increased power doesn't always equate to intuitiveness.

  4. #4
    LightWave documentation BeeVee's Avatar
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    Have you looked at RebelHill's courses? https://forums.newtek.com/showthread...-2019-RELEASED!

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  5. #5
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    There is a lot of excellent training available between tutorials on older versions of Lightwave and material that has been produced for LW2018 and 2019.

    That being said; Lightwave is definitely due for a full training update. A Lynda course would be fantastic.

    I wish Newtek would corral all of the extremely gifted people who produce fantastic work and tutorials, develop a learning curriculum and assign pieces to those individuals who are the strongest in those various areas, group it by subject, and produce some excellent training to post up to Lynda.

    A course could start on fundamental training and then focus on specific areas.

    It would certainly let everyone know that Lightwave is still here and what it is currently capable of.

  6. #6
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
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    Yeah... sadly this whole lynda thing, and similar sites, are just not worth it, there's too little return to creators for the time taken, given the level of interest in LW.

    But as BeeVee says (cheers, mon ami), you'll find that my stuff is exactly this kind of in depth, structured stuff, working up from first principles that you're after. It is, imo, the best way to do training from the learners perspective. .I hope you'll find something there that satisfies your wants.

    As to why there's so little done that way... don't know for sure. I suspect that a lot of it has to do with experienced users preferring to do project style pieces that tie various elements together, but also in many cases, possibly linked to the fact that they themselves picked things up piecemeal as they went along, and as such aren't really accustomed to structured learning of this type. People tend to just present things in the way that they feel it would make sense to them. It can be hard to put yourself back into the mindset of a noob and see things from that perspective..

    Cheers.
    Last edited by RebelHill; 02-08-2019 at 08:32 AM.
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    Hey Birck. I think the first thing that you might want to think about is - What kind of 3D are you wanting to do? Myself, I'm more a character artist and animator, some people like modeling real world objects (cars, equipment, ordinary objects); while others may be more architectural and/or landscape (buildings, interiors, mountains, etc) type artists. Each area would need disciplined learning in different areas that focus on what is specific to those areas. For example, character animators and modelers gear more to an organic style of modeling, while someone modeling a building or say a rigid object might be more inclined for what's referred to as hard ops. With these different areas, an artist might use different tools to achieve the desired outcome.

    Once you understand what it is you're wanting to do, then, you can look for specific training or books that cater to that style. Depending on your background too, if you have a foundation in the 3D world, you might just need training or reference in how to do it in Lightwave or understand the Lightware workflow. For me, I had been using 3D applications for a long time; so, when I came to Lightwave, I just had to know how Lightwave tools worked and not necessarily how 3D worked overall.

    As the above posters have already recommended, I'll add I've learned most everything I know so far (and I have a long way to go still) is to search and read in these forums as much as you can and post questions, as well. We are all learning and some just got an earlier start then some of us.
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  8. #8
    LightWave documentation BeeVee's Avatar
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    And it would be remiss of me not to mention the indefatigable Erikals with his list of commercial LightWave training - https://forums.newtek.com/showthread...raining-a-list

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    Ben Vost - NewTek LightWave 3D development
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  9. #9
    Dear Shabazzy, Thank you for the suggested resources. I've actually been using them. I had enough sense back in the early 2000's, when I first got LW, to buy those books (except for the one on texturing, which I just ordered), and now I'm glad I did. I've been relying on Inside Lightwave v9, Essential Lightwave v9, and Applied Lightwave, plus the many good tips I've requested on this forum, and, of course, YouTube tutorials. But the tutorials at, say, the Newtek site, tend to cater to the seasoned user, with bullet dynamics, UV mapping, etc. I'm still dealing with things like dropping the Box tool when I finish with the primitive. I hope that Newtek hears our plaintive cries and piteous wailing about learning resources.
    BC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birck Cox View Post
    Dear Shabazzy, Thank you for the suggested resources. I've actually been using them. I had enough sense back in the early 2000's, when I first got LW, to buy those books (except for the one on texturing, which I just ordered), and now I'm glad I did. I've been relying on Inside Lightwave v9, Essential Lightwave v9, and Applied Lightwave, plus the many good tips I've requested on this forum, and, of course, YouTube tutorials. But the tutorials at, say, the Newtek site, tend to cater to the seasoned user, with bullet dynamics, UV mapping, etc. I'm still dealing with things like dropping the Box tool when I finish with the primitive. I hope that Newtek hears our plaintive cries and piteous wailing about learning resources.
    Awesome.

    The thing I've found when learning like this, is to have patience. I like to understand the fundamental principles fully and build from there. Over the years I've learned that you can't perform the cool stuff without understanding the basic stuff, and you have to make time for that.

    Try not to go from chapter to chapter without trying to utilise what you've learned. Try out your new found knowledge in the form of small projects that you've devised. I find that if the book shows you how to make a teacup, for example, it's always a good idea to see if you can use that knowledge to make a jug or vase or bookcase or something completely different before going on to the next chapter.

    It really solidifies what you've read.

    I think it's a good idea to understand as many aspects of 3D animation as possible (i.e., be a generalist) because having that knowledge gives you a great deal of flexibility and from there gives you a greater appreciation of the 'pipeline' when working with other teams should you decide to specialise in a particular area.
    Last edited by Shabazzy; 02-08-2019 at 03:27 PM.

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    Hi Shabazzy,

    As I'm still struggling with learning this software but I love what it has shown me so far in capabilities. Would you say these books are great for those coming from an Autodesk background? I'm trying to set up a production pipeline for 3d printing with ZBrush and LightWave 3D. So far I have been floored with just the fact I have been able to import and export between the two without any crashing or file corruption - which is what I dealt with using Maya. Importing a small basic model from ZBrush? Maya crashes. Trying to use GoZ? Nope, not going to work with out a file issue. I have just used import/export via tools menu in ZBrush as well as GoZ and I LOVE how reliable it is! What bugs me is that I can't get to that amazing level I see everyone else working on and I need a decent outline with structured lessons that build on each other. I want to make a detailed model, texture it, and rig it as well as do visual effects. I have a degree and feel like I'm just walking around blind. The videos are just a jumbled mess and I can't afford to spend $50+ on all the tutorial videos. I really like the material but I just have access to the online manual which just skims the surface.

    Since the 3d printing settings are new I'm able to follow them since I've had to move files so much but...when trying to make something of my own I keep thinking that I'm going about it the very hard way. I have used Maya, Mudbox (before Autodesk purchased it), Houdini (as a student), ZBrush (now), and purchased the update for LightWave 3D 2019 along with Nevron Motion and Chronosculpt when the update was on sale.

    On a side note the capabilities of Chronosculpt and NevronMotion have me picking my jaw up off the floor. I don't get why Autodesk has people roped in when I see Chronosculpt doing amazing work that takes forever to get out of Maya. Granted I haven't been doing as much as I have with Maya in the past but I'm eternally grateful that LW3D doesn't crash all the time! I could hug the developers (or buy them beers)! Right now I'm going through the list of YouTube videos and have found them helpful but I really need those foundational courses as well as know what all those fancy buttons do.

    Sincerely,
    Sarah

  12. #12
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    The best basic training video series, that was similar to the basic tutorials you can find for EVERY OTHER SOFTWARE not made by Newtek, was by Dan Ablan. It was for LW 11-11.5 I believe, and was never updated for newer versions. Most of it is still relevant, but he shut down his site maybe due to retirement or poor health, not sure. His LW11 series is what used to be hosted on lynda.com. I guess either he pulled it, or they dropped it because it was a few versions out of date. He was a good trainer, who explained everything clearly, and to the point. It's too bad he's not still doing it, and that he never made the course available on youtube, once it went out of date. It would be just what you need as a beginner in LW.

    You can try this channel. He does some stuff that covers basics. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHF...nxUDwqg/videos

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    Quote Originally Posted by SarahA. View Post
    Hi Shabazzy,

    As I'm still struggling with learning this software but I love what it has shown me so far in capabilities. Would you say these books are great for those coming from an Autodesk background? I'm trying to set up a production pipeline for 3d printing with ZBrush and LightWave 3D.
    Hi Sarah,

    Thanks for reaching out to me (us in the forums?) and thank you for choosing LightWave 3D to add to your 3D toolset.

    In answer to the above question, the books I recommended will absolutely give you a very strong primer on how to use LightWave 3D. Ofcourse over the years some changes have been made to the LightWave interface and some of the buttons and settings have been moved around. But thankfully LW 2019 now has a FLAT MENU function (CTRL+SPACE) with a search function included that allows you to find what your looking for more easily. You can find more info here:

    Click here to read the FLAT MENU feature in the docs. It is located at the bottom of page.

    I can't say whether the books are any good for users of another 3D tool or not since that really depends on the user's mentality, but I can say that if you approach my recommended books from the stand point of a complete novice to 3D in general, you'll do just fine.

    The books themselves don't cover integration with other 3rd party tools that are not plugins, since they were written for versions of LightWave that didn't have those features.

    Quote Originally Posted by SarahA. View Post
    What bugs me is that I can't get to that amazing level I see everyone else working on and I need a decent outline with structured lessons that build on each other. I want to make a detailed model, texture it, and rig it as well as do visual effects. I have a degree and feel like I'm just walking around blind.
    Quote Originally Posted by SarahA. View Post
    Right now I'm going through the list of YouTube videos and have found them helpful but I really need those foundational courses as well as know what all those fancy buttons do.
    Well, I can tell you from first hand experience that once you do the work in the books and get the fundamentals down, the videos will make a lot more sense.

    Some things to remember are:
    1. There's no one way to achieve anything in LightWave.
    2. The right way or wrong way is determined solely by whether the intended outcome was successful or not.
    3. No one can ever know EVERYTHING that LightWave is capable of. I've been using it for over 20 years and am still discovering new things about it.
    4. Never be afraid to experiment.
    5. Making mistakes and getting things wrong is a good thing. The crime is not learning from them.
    6. If you don't know. ASK!
    7. And perhaps the most important of all of them is.... you MUST. HAVE. PATIENCE. It's the only way you will succeed.


    I hope this has helped point you in the right direction and I'd be really interested in hearing back from you on how you're getting on.

    Don't be a stranger.

    Shabazzy
    Last edited by Shabazzy; 04-07-2020 at 05:04 PM.

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