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Thread: LightWave 3D® 2019 is Now Available - Official Discussion Thread

  1. #376
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vncnt View Post
    the LW manual is a little too much like "Button xE5vb90 activates function xE5vb90"
    Yeah... it reads like stereo instructions, cos that's kind of what it is. How to operate the EQ switches is explained, but why you'd want to isnt. That's not product knowledge, its knowledge of the field (and its practicioners) the product is aimed towards.

    Quote Originally Posted by wingzeta View Post
    they took away the old renderer we all knew how to use, thus eliminating what would have been the transition period.
    Its a while back now, but I seem to recall this was mentioned during 2018 beta, and part of what was communicated was the fact that because the geometry system in layout was being replaced, that there would have to be extensive rewrites to the old rendering system so as the (old) renderer could actually sample those surfaces. This would have added a good deal of extra work (recall, it was already aiming to be LW 2016), so you can imagine trying to wrangle all that on top of the new stuff. There was also the fact that, it would have meant maintaining 2 whole sets of everything... material nodes, lights, so you'd have had old version conductor, new version conductor... old version area light, new version area light... And if you'd mixed them up wrong in a single scene, you'd either get a messy render, or lots of back, or crashes.

    I suspect that alone would have made the transition far harder for most folks, than the way it was done in the end.
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  2. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by RebelHill View Post

    Its a while back now, but I seem to recall this was mentioned during 2018 beta, and part of what was communicated was the fact that because the geometry system in layout was being replaced, that there would have to be extensive rewrites to the old rendering system so as the (old) renderer could actually sample those surfaces. This would have added a good deal of extra work (recall, it was already aiming to be LW 2016), so you can imagine trying to wrangle all that on top of the new stuff. There was also the fact that, it would have meant maintaining 2 whole sets of everything... material nodes, lights, so you'd have had old version conductor, new version conductor... old version area light, new version area light... And if you'd mixed them up wrong in a single scene, you'd either get a messy render, or lots of back, or crashes.

    I suspect that alone would have made the transition far harder for most folks, than the way it was done in the end.
    Yeah, I think they did what they had to do to move the software forward. Hopefully it laid the groundwork for continued improvements. Now, it just needs to keep being developed, with the new owners coming in.

  3. #378
    Creative Director jaxtone's Avatar
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    I may sound like a grumpy old man, and in deed I am, but I can assure you all that I was way more fit, naive and energetic when I first put my hands on Lightwave in the mid 90´s.

    Well, let me share some positive energy first: Lightwave/Newtek are still running on my computers since this 3D application is probably the last outpost before Autodesk takes over the whole world which scares the hell out of me since greed is their surname.


    LW 3D is generally good but unfortunately still got the "old techguru-isched upperclass rule printed behind its eyelids. I mean that this is one of the worst enemies LW 3D has that actually hold back new inventions and challenges to compete with the world outside.

    Just take a look at our grandchildren´s way of using gadgets that lands up in their hands where the apps are extremely easy to use and are updated with new and faster inventions all the time, from morphs to wigs, from particles splits, liquid and fire. These kids are all more focused in the creative process and would never accept swallowing problems that developers or production teams couldn't solve before the apps were released.

    I just mention this because its shameful to hear youngsters ask what the heck we older are doing when struggling to create something they already can do in their sleep at no time at all. The future cannot be built on a walk for miles to create something that the software itself should handle without any doubts or questions.

    So what´s the fuzz and what would I like to see in the software I both hate and love?

    More easy to use presets for hair, morphs, fire, liquid, dynamics, particles and CA not to mention the most important thing for any 3D-animator out there that do not have an enormous amount of render machines or huge budgets.

    In 2019 when graphic boards and computers are at least a hundred times faster than decades ago, how come any developer team comes up with a render engine that are so slow that the whole idea of rendering becomes a nightmare of Elm Street in slomo?
    Curious

  4. #379
    Super Member vncnt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RebelHill View Post
    Yeah... it reads like stereo instructions, cos that's kind of what it is. How to operate the EQ switches is explained, but why you'd want to isnt. That's not product knowledge, its knowledge of the field (and its practicioners) the product is aimed towards.
    I think that depencies, impact/capabities or limitations are relevant topics for a reference manual because they can depend on specific software.
    Too many times you need to cruise the forums to find answers.

  5. #380
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaxtone View Post
    Just take a look at our grandchildren´s way of using gadgets that lands up in their hands where the apps are extremely easy to use and are updated with new and faster inventions all the time, from morphs to wigs, from particles splits, liquid and fire. These kids are all more focused in the creative process and would never accept swallowing problems that developers or production teams couldn't solve before the apps were released.
    Funny this comes up this morning. Just last evening I discussed this with someone in senior management. Here is part of my email:

    "I’ve often thought that the arcane knowledge required in some domains had lagged somewhat deliberately, having as much to do with job security as real demands of the field. Imagining that this sort of ‘guild’ approach can continue indefinitely in this new millennium is usually going to be a mistake.

    Most of the upcoming generation have the attention span of a flea on amphetamines, and no patience with documentation. They’ve become accustomed to UI conventions from the cradle, and quickly become frustrated with the unfamiliar, complex or tedious. You’d best have a very good reason for not following standard Microsoft or Adobe practice; simply because you’ve got a better way is not good enough. Nor is the fact that making the presentation of a feature simpler, more intuitive, will take a little extra engineering time."

    A salute, then, from one curmudgeon to another.
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  6. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    Funny this comes up this morning. Just last evening I discussed this with someone in senior management. Here is part of my email:

    "I’ve often thought that the arcane knowledge required in some domains had lagged somewhat deliberately, having as much to do with job security as real demands of the field. Imagining that this sort of ‘guild’ approach can continue indefinitely in this new millennium is usually going to be a mistake.

    Most of the upcoming generation have the attention span of a flea on amphetamines, and no patience with documentation. They’ve become accustomed to UI conventions from the cradle, and quickly become frustrated with the unfamiliar, complex or tedious. You’d best have a very good reason for not following standard Microsoft or Adobe practice; simply because you’ve got a better way is not good enough. Nor is the fact that making the presentation of a feature simpler, more intuitive, will take a little extra engineering time."

    A salute, then, from one curmudgeon to another.
    Add maya to that. esp maya nav

  7. #382
    Creative Director jaxtone's Avatar
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    Thanks for your answer SBowie!

    What can I say more than that as an old flower power child of my generation, (I am 66 this year), I openly without any addictions confess that I am well aware of all kind of drugs and also admit that I anytime would chose stuff that drives me forward rather than put me to sleep

    Whatever we oldies think about the future world the harsh truth is that we are soon about to leave it and when new generations take over I can almost guarantee that a majority of creative minds will not put effort in solutions that are spelled "detours" in the meaning of GUI´s. Honestly why should they repeat our mistakes when we´ve been scratching our heads until we got bald if they do not need to? I´ll try not not be prejudiced when criticize an area I´ve found "not so very funny" during the years but its pretty obvious that it is an advantage to have at least one foot in the autism-spectra when entering the world of binary code.

    I admit I have been doing things on the road a preacher would not be proud of but the most shameful thing is this:

    I must have some kind of sick fetish when constantly being smashing my head against unnecessarily complicated interfaces for about 30 years now, and then I didn't even mention the hair solution both for me and the characters inside LW

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    Funny this comes up this morning. Just last evening I discussed this with someone in senior management. Here is part of my email:

    "I’ve often thought that the arcane knowledge required in some domains had lagged somewhat deliberately, having as much to do with job security as real demands of the field. Imagining that this sort of ‘guild’ approach can continue indefinitely in this new millennium is usually going to be a mistake.

    Most of the upcoming generation have the attention span of a flea on amphetamines, and no patience with documentation. They’ve become accustomed to UI conventions from the cradle, and quickly become frustrated with the unfamiliar, complex or tedious. You’d best have a very good reason for not following standard Microsoft or Adobe practice; simply because you’ve got a better way is not good enough. Nor is the fact that making the presentation of a feature simpler, more intuitive, will take a little extra engineering time."

    A salute, then, from one curmudgeon to another.
    Last edited by jaxtone; 04-07-2019 at 11:51 PM.
    Curious

  8. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    Funny this comes up this morning. Just last evening I discussed this with someone in senior management. Here is part of my email:

    "I’ve often thought that the arcane knowledge required in some domains had lagged somewhat deliberately, having as much to do with job security as real demands of the field. Imagining that this sort of ‘guild’ approach can continue indefinitely in this new millennium is usually going to be a mistake.

    Most of the upcoming generation have the attention span of a flea on amphetamines, and no patience with documentation. They’ve become accustomed to UI conventions from the cradle, and quickly become frustrated with the unfamiliar, complex or tedious. You’d best have a very good reason for not following standard Microsoft or Adobe practice; simply because you’ve got a better way is not good enough. Nor is the fact that making the presentation of a feature simpler, more intuitive, will take a little extra engineering time."

    A salute, then, from one curmudgeon to another.
    This is very true. Technology is supposed to make life easier and more convenient. Some may view it as laziness, but we have to think about how we use to write a letter and wait weeks for delivery, now we have email. We use to travel months to get across the ocean, now we just hop on a plane. I use to cook my meals, now, I mostly eat out. CG use to be hard, now we have a "Make Starwars button". Well not yet, but the paradigm constantly changes towards convienence and ease.
    Last edited by thomascheng; 05-08-2019 at 03:56 PM.

  9. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomascheng View Post
    Technology is supposed to make life easier and more convenient. Some may view it as laziness, but we have to think about how we use to write a letter and wait weeks for delivery, now we have email. We use to travel months to get across the ocean, now we just hop on a plane. I use to cook my meals, now, I mostly eat out. CG use to be hard, now we have a "Make Starwars button". Well not yet, but the paradigm constantly changes towards convienence and ease.
    I do agree, but one reason why we are in this existence is because people from the Middle Ages had the aspirations to get out of the Middle Ages....but this is not necessarily the world they envisaged - the plastic bag culture and toxins all over the environment and food chain, even the air unbreathable.

    Our value seems only the collective use to various corporations. When things are invented and developed and marketed for our convenience, we all go for it unaware of the consequences till decades later, and we don't really have the option to reverse time to reboot in a different direction. I personally don't have any answers at all, but the post-WWII sci-fi visions of technology solving human problems now seem the be the fantasies, whilst the more dystopian visions seem to be where we are headed.

    But I still want GPU rendering. I feel really really bad.....

    Last edited by TheLexx; 07-03-2019 at 03:44 PM.

  10. #385
    I should update my Avatar Verlon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLexx View Post
    I do agree, but one reason why we are in this existence is because people from the Middle Ages had the aspirations to get out of the Middle Ages....but this is not necessarily the world they envisaged - the plastic bag culture and toxins all over the environment and food chain, even the air unbreathable.

    Our value seems only the collective use to various corporations. When things are invented and developed and marketed for our convenience, we all go for it unaware of the consequences till decades later, and we don't really have the option to reverse time to reboot in a different direction. I personally don't have any answers at all, but the post-WWII sci-fi visions of technology solving human problems now seem the be the fantasies, whilst the more dystopian visions seem to be where we are headed.

    But I still want GPU rendering. I feel really really bad.....

    The optimist believes the world is as good as it can be. The pessimist is afraid it is. Optimistic people live longer, statistically speaking.

    The air is completely breathable. I am breathing it now. The toxins, while a concern, are not nearly as bad as the plague. Silver didn’t tarnish until the 1500s or so because of sulfur in the atmosphere.

    Technology has solved a great many problems, but we do have new ones, and not all from technology.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLexx View Post
    I do agree, but one reason why we are in this existence is because people from the Middle Ages had the aspirations to get out of the Middle Ages....but this is not necessarily the world they envisaged - the plastic bag culture and toxins all over the environment and food chain, even the air unbreathable.

    Our value seems only the collective use to various corporations. When things are invented and developed and marketed for our convenience, we all go for it unaware of the consequences till decades later, and we don't really have the option to reverse time to reboot in a different direction. I personally don't have any answers at all, but the post-WWII sci-fi visions of technology solving human problems now seem the be the fantasies, whilst the more dystopian visions seem to be where we are headed.

    But I still want GPU rendering. I feel really really bad.....

    The optimist believes the world is as good as it can be. The pessimist is afraid it is. Optimistic people live longer, statistically speaking.

    The air is completely breathable. I am breathing it now. The toxins, while a concern, are not nearly as bad as the plague. Silver didn’t tarnish until the 1500s or so because of sulfur in the atmosphere.

    Technology has solved a great many problems, but we do have new ones, and not all from technology.
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  11. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by thomascheng View Post
    CG use to be hard, now we have a "Make Starwars button".
    Still waiting for that one...
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  12. #387
    Not so newbie member lardbros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    Funny this comes up this morning. Just last evening I discussed this with someone in senior management. Here is part of my email:

    "I’ve often thought that the arcane knowledge required in some domains had lagged somewhat deliberately, having as much to do with job security as real demands of the field. Imagining that this sort of ‘guild’ approach can continue indefinitely in this new millennium is usually going to be a mistake.

    Most of the upcoming generation have the attention span of a flea on amphetamines, and no patience with documentation. They’ve become accustomed to UI conventions from the cradle, and quickly become frustrated with the unfamiliar, complex or tedious. You’d best have a very good reason for not following standard Microsoft or Adobe practice; simply because you’ve got a better way is not good enough. Nor is the fact that making the presentation of a feature simpler, more intuitive, will take a little extra engineering time."

    A salute, then, from one curmudgeon to another.
    They sound very wise and 'in-touch'. Glad you have people like that in charge... I agree with every word.
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