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Thread: LightWave 3D 2019 is Now Available - Official Discussion Thread

  1. #361
    NewTek Social Media Chuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    if RH’s stuff is essential should they not be part of the docs?
    Got something against RH making a living?
    Chuck Baker
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    Software Developer's Dilemma: The better the new feature, the more feature requests it will generate. - C. Baker
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  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    Got something against RH making a living?
    no. just this topic seems to require a good explanation. perhaps a translation or consolidation to the docs.

    get him to do it. my opinion is fueled by the knowledge that you need the base price of lw, od toolset, various other plugins and then you have to buy the documentation as well. add it all together and other packages look cheap.

  3. #363
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    you need the base price of lw, od toolset, various other plugins and then you have to buy the documentation as well.
    You really dont. While certain plugins may be considered "must have" in the colloquial sese, they're not actually necessary in a strict one. You can always buy addons for damn near any kind of product you care to think of to accessorise it to make it easier/cooler/whatever.

    And as for the docs... all the info is in there, if you have the background knowledge in 3D graphics and rendering to begin with, you can figure all this stuff out yourself. There's no reason to expect the docs ought teach you that. Do you get free driving lessons when you buy a car? Training in the culinary arts when you buy a cooker? A course in carpentry when you buy a saw ad a drill? Nope. Manufacturers of tools/machines document the specific operational parts and controls of their products within the context of the practice for which they're designed to be used. If you need additional information or training beyond that, you need to acquire that separately.

    Having all these add ons and trainings to be included as standard out the box would only inflate prices on everyone, including those without the requirement for them. Like almost anything else you can think of, you buy a central tool(s), and extras as befits your own needs and cicrumstances.
    LSR Surface and Rendering Tuts.
    RHiggit Rigging and Animation Tools
    RHA Animation Tutorials
    RHR Rigging Tutorials
    RHN Nodal Tutorials
    YT Vids Tuts for all

  4. #364
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    I think I am not mistaken that there are ample examples of third party training materials available at cost for other packages, as well. It must, then be the case that these are seen to add some value, covering aspects not as well revealed in the original documentation provided by the developer (else the producers of the extra cost training material would not bother). So your contention cannot be that the original docs supplied with all other packages are 100% complete and satisfactory in every way.

    This fact, then, places the discussion on a gradient of necessity - is the original documentation so woefully inadequate that everyone is really forced to pay the extra cost for supplemental material? Or is it reasonable that the basic docs cover basics, and more sophisticated users of the software can benefit from advanced material provided by experts in a particular aspect of the field?

    Frankly, I think this all flows entirely from Chuck's use of the word "essential". Maybe "excellent" would have been less contentious, but are we really that pedantic? If so, by all means let's leap on the fact that he simply gives RebelHill props if it provides the even the slightest opening to bash LW.
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  5. #365
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    ok, well to keep it productive. can the confluence docs accept user comments so as to expand explanations and request more info? I think another 3D package does this or did it. Could be handy.

    I'm not looking to bash LW, its just with subscriptions, plugins, maintenance etc, this stuff really adds up and if on a reasonable budget with alternatives providing (for a lack of a better way of putting this) superior or perceived as superior info, integrated solutions etc It would be worth bearing in mind for the future.

    Personally I am trying to support NT and as many LW plugin devs as much as I can but I certainly notice that one maintenance price elsewhere is more cost effective. Its getting difficult to ignore.
    Last edited by gar26lw; 04-05-2019 at 08:53 AM.

  6. #366
    Registered User ianr's Avatar
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    A Plate for Sbowie to go with & match his Viking
    props!........... Enjoy LW & PSHOP
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    Last edited by ianr; 04-05-2019 at 09:19 AM.

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by RebelHill View Post
    Do you get free driving lessons when you buy a car? Training in the culinary arts when you buy a cooker? A course in carpentry when you buy a saw ad a drill? Nope. Manufacturers of tools/machines document the specific operational parts and controls of their products within the context of the practice for which they're designed to be used.
    Yeah, yeah! If not, why not?!


  8. #368
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
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    If the answer to your question is not obvious to you, I think we've found the reason why you need every last step spelled out for you.
    LSR Surface and Rendering Tuts.
    RHiggit Rigging and Animation Tools
    RHA Animation Tutorials
    RHR Rigging Tutorials
    RHN Nodal Tutorials
    YT Vids Tuts for all

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by RebelHill View Post
    If the answer to your question is not obvious to you, I think we've found the reason why you need every last step spelled out for you.
    I am kidding buddy

    Don't get so offended so easily. I thought you were from the UK. British humour and all that. Not a Red Dwarf fan?
    Last edited by gar26lw; 04-05-2019 at 10:34 AM.

  10. #370
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianr View Post
    Enjoy LW & PSHOP
    I will probably never enjoy Photoshop, but I will have some fun with that image - thanks!
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  11. #371
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    Not a Red Dwarf fan?
    I am!
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    Regards, Steve
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  12. #372
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    Not a Red Dwarf fan?
    Some may consider my comment to indicate that I favour Blackadder.
    LSR Surface and Rendering Tuts.
    RHiggit Rigging and Animation Tools
    RHA Animation Tutorials
    RHR Rigging Tutorials
    RHN Nodal Tutorials
    YT Vids Tuts for all

  13. #373
    Super Member vncnt's Avatar
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    Sometimes the LW manual is a little too much like "Button xE5vb90 activates function xE5vb90", to my taste.

    Please explain (at least for all us non-native speakers) why would I need function xE5vb90 at all.
    Capabiities? Limitations? Known bugs?

  14. #374
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vncnt View Post
    Sometimes the LW manual is a little too much like "Button xE5vb90 activates function xE5vb90", to my taste.
    Those kind of statements are, in my experience, usually either placeholders for late-breaking items that you haven't been able to get a straight answer about from engineers, or - less commonly - items that are just boringly obvious.
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  15. #375
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    I'll chime in with this. I bought the RH rendering tutorials, and they are very worthwhile if you are rendering in LW 2018 and beyond. What he said about not getting driving lessons when you buy a car is quite right. But I will say, what makes the current situation with LW a bit awkward, is that unlike many other new, complicated, and different render systems added to other software, in this case, they took away the old renderer we all knew how to use, thus eliminating what would have been the transition period. As in, the transition period where more advanced users dive into the new system, produce some "next level" renders, and everyone else asks "how did you do it?". And the knowledge would filter down, and more and more people would migrate to the new renderer for it's greater power. I would guess something like that happened between the older AD renderers and Mentalray, and then Mentalray to Arnold, because they added the new renders on, but still had the old ones at hand, so you could do day to day work. AFAIK LW required some under the hood changes that made keeping the old renderer too difficult to be worth it (If not, they should have kept it). Thus this painful transition for the average user, who wants to take advantage of the latest version, but finds themselves thrown into the deep end of the pool. Lets also be frank, the new system is not as easy for a new user as the classic LW renderer, and because it's new, there are not many resources online to help people figure it out. That could be a problem for getting new users. I think a lot of people became LW users because it was easy to jump in and get a result, vs other software with more esoteric settings hidden everywhere. Unfortunately the new render is like that, with quite a few "gotcha" boxes that have to be checked across numerous panels, to get a clean result. There was a good effort to consolidate panels over LW 11-2015, so maybe it will similarly get cleaned up going forward. Arnold has a panel with most of the sample settings in one place, so that might be something good to add.

    Anyhow, RH was able to take advantage of the situation, and it's good he did, otherwise the awkward transition might last quite a bit longer, and be more painful. That still doesn't totally let NT off the hook, for increasing the difficulty of the user experience without a bit more hand holding in the basics. It's like selling someone a car, with five extra pedals on the floor, not giving them at least "what's new" driving lessons, then Chuck stealing their bike and laughing at them;-)

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