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Thread: LW2019 - Layout viewport performance with active modifiers fixed - Thank you NewTek!

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by lardbros View Post
    2018 has had 6 mini updates, more than any other software developer normally releases, and more stable than most other software I use.

    For instance, 3dsMax 2018 had 4 mini updates, all of which have bugs that mean you can't use the tool. Weld for example, when done on an Edit Poly modifier, will crash immediately! Yeah, pretty terrible... LightWave has many less developers, much less capital behind it, yet at least I can still weld in LW without a crash.

    Well that's what software developers are supposed to do when they release software that's riddled with bugs like 2018 was. But aside from that, Houdini releases daily builds, Blender has daily builds, Modo has dozens of maintenance builds per year around their 3 feature releases per year. As far as 2018.4 on max, it had over 100 bug fixes. So not sure on that LW releases more bugfixes than any other developer.

    And you can weld in LW without a bug because that tool is over 20 years old and they've barely touched modeler in that 20 years. Not surprising its stable by now, wouldn't you say?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by lardbros View Post
    2018 has had 6 mini updates, more than any other software developer normally releases, and more stable than most other software I use.

    For instance, 3dsMax 2018 had 4 mini updates, all of which have bugs that mean you can't use the tool. Weld for example, when done on an Edit Poly modifier, will crash immediately! Yeah, pretty terrible... LightWave has many less developers, much less capital behind it, yet at least I can still weld in LW without a crash.

    Well that's what software developers are supposed to do when they release software that's riddled with bugs like 2018 was. But aside from that, Houdini releases daily builds, Blender has daily builds, Modo has dozens of maintenance builds per year around their 3 feature releases per year. As far as 2018.4 on max, it had over 100 bug fixes. So not sure on that LW releases more bugfixes than any other developer.

    And you can weld in LW without a bug because that tool is over 20 years old and they've barely touched modeler in that 20 years. Not surprising its stable by now, wouldn't you say?

  2. #32
    aka Ken9 DuneBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_Boland View Post
    As for Sliders, I just looked and those arrow heads are no longer mentioned in the documentation (I'm guessing since they don't work they want to draw attention to them) but they are supposed to nudge the slider control value 0.01 left or right upon clicking, but they don't do anything.
    Thanks for pointing out the lack of documentation on those arrows. The wiki has been updated to include mention of what they do. It was confirmed that those arrows are functioning, and how, which is to jump to the previous and next keyframe for the given channel's envelope (this behavior dates back to at least 2006).

    Thanks again.
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  3. #33
    Super Member Paul_Boland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuneBoy View Post
    It was confirmed that those arrows are functioning, and how, which is to jump to the previous and next keyframe for the given channel's envelope (this behavior dates back to at least 2006).

    Thanks again.
    Just checked this and you're right, so my apologies for thinking otherwise. I'm very sure I read somewhere that those arrow heads were meant to nudge the slider 0.01 left or right to give fine control but I can't recall where I read it. So I withdraw that issues as the buttons do work, just not as I thought. My other issues with Sliders stands.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuneBoy View Post
    The wiki has been updated to include mention of what they do.
    ??? Which wiki is that??
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  5. #35
    aka Ken9 DuneBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeric_synergy View Post
    ??? Which wiki is that??
    Sorry, the docs site: https://docs.lightwave3d.com/

    It's wiki-ish, so I'm used to thinking of it as 'the docs wiki'.
    Ken Nign

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_Boland View Post
    Create a Cube in Modeller, save the object.
    Create a Sphere in Modeller, save the object.
    Load the Cube into Layout and apply FiberFX to it. Save the scene and object.
    New scene in Layout, load the Sphere and apply FiberFX. Save the scene and object.
    New Scene in Layout. Load From Scene the cube. Turn on VPR and you'll see it fine with all the FiberFX stuff on it.
    Load From Scene the sphere. CRASH!
    If you have VPR turned off and load the two objects they will appear fine in the scene without the FiberFX applied to them but then pressed F9 to render, CRASH!!

    Newtek tech support as acknowledged this is a bug and has been around since 2018.0.2, still present in 2018.0.6. Works fine in Lightwave 2015.
    Okay... I just followed your example.

    Created and saved fiber_testSphere. Created and saved fiber_testCube.

    Brought fiber_testCube into Layout and applied FiberFX. Adjusted settings, saved as cubeFiber.lws. Saved fiber settings as ffs file. Cleared scene.

    Brought fiber_testSphere into Layout, applied FiberFX. Adjusted settings, saved as sphereFiber.lws. Saved fiber settings as ffs file. Cleared scene.

    Loaded cubeFiber.lws and its primitve from cubeFiber.lws.

    Loaded fiber_testSphere and its primitive from sphereFiber.lws.

    Opened FiberFX, activated fibers for fiber_testSphere and fiber_testCube.

    Loaded sphereFiber.ffs to the sphere and cubeFiber.ffs to the cube. All fiber settings now back to normal.

    Running 2018.0... no update.

    Rendered. Render complete, elapsed time 26m 13s.

    fiber_testSphere GUIDES: 288 FIBERS: 300000 EDGES: 14400000 fiber_testCube GUIDES: 6 FIBERS: 750000 EDGES: 36000000

    All of that said; I do not doubt that you encountered the issues you reported. I am trying to figure out why I am NOT encountering them, in an effort to figure out why you are.

  7. #37
    Dreamer Ztreem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPSchmidt View Post
    Okay... I just followed your example.

    Created and saved fiber_testSphere. Created and saved fiber_testCube.

    Brought fiber_testCube into Layout and applied FiberFX. Adjusted settings, saved as cubeFiber.lws. Saved fiber settings as ffs file. Cleared scene.

    Brought fiber_testSphere into Layout, applied FiberFX. Adjusted settings, saved as sphereFiber.lws. Saved fiber settings as ffs file. Cleared scene.

    Loaded cubeFiber.lws and its primitve from cubeFiber.lws.

    Loaded fiber_testSphere and its primitive from sphereFiber.lws.

    Opened FiberFX, activated fibers for fiber_testSphere and fiber_testCube.

    Loaded sphereFiber.ffs to the sphere and cubeFiber.ffs to the cube. All fiber settings now back to normal.

    Running 2018.0... no update.

    Rendered. Render complete, elapsed time 26m 13s.

    fiber_testSphere GUIDES: 288 FIBERS: 300000 EDGES: 14400000 fiber_testCube GUIDES: 6 FIBERS: 750000 EDGES: 36000000

    All of that said; I do not doubt that you encountered the issues you reported. I am trying to figure out why I am NOT encountering them, in an effort to figure out why you are.
    Because if you read the whole post he said it was introduced in 2018.0.2.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ztreem View Post
    Because if you read the whole post he said it was introduced in 2018.0.2.
    I guess we both missed it... because I told him I was using 2018.0 in the post he replied to and he provided me with detailed instructions. Soooo.... rollback?
    Last edited by RPSchmidt; 10-12-2018 at 09:58 AM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPSchmidt View Post
    I guess we both missed it... because I told him I was using 2018.0 in the post he replied to and he provided me with detailed instructions. Soooo.... rollback?
    Rolling back to 2018.0 means reverting a bunch of critical GI/rendering, Bullet, and FFX fixes as well, so likely isn't a viable option here.

    They need to fix the issue. Just leaving FFX LFS broken and "moving on" isn't really acceptable, esp. as this issue is clearly a regression caused by something they did in LW2018 dev cycle.
    Last edited by jwiede; 10-12-2018 at 04:16 PM.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    Rolling back to 2018.0 means reverting a bunch of critical GI/rendering, Bullet, and FFX fixes as well, so likely isn't a viable option here.

    They need to fix the issue. Just leaving FFX LFS broken and "moving on" isn't really acceptable, esp. as this issue is clearly a regression caused by something they did in LW2018 dev cycle.
    Huh.... I was under the impression that each update was a standalone. Isn't it possible to have both 2018.0 and 2018.06 installed?

    Certainly not.the ideal solution but at least you would be able to continue work.

    Of course, they should definitely fix it.

  11. #41
    Not so newbie member lardbros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    Well that's what software developers are supposed to do when they release software that's riddled with bugs like 2018 was. But aside from that, Houdini releases daily builds, Blender has daily builds, Modo has dozens of maintenance builds per year around their 3 feature releases per year. As far as 2018.4 on max, it had over 100 bug fixes. So not sure on that LW releases more bugfixes than any other developer.

    And you can weld in LW without a bug because that tool is over 20 years old and they've barely touched modeler in that 20 years. Not surprising its stable by now, wouldn't you say?

    - - - Updated - - -




    Well that's what software developers are supposed to do when they release software that's riddled with bugs like 2018 was. But aside from that, Houdini releases daily builds, Blender has daily builds, Modo has dozens of maintenance builds per year around their 3 feature releases per year. As far as 2018.4 on max, it had over 100 bug fixes. So not sure on that LW releases more bugfixes than any other developer.

    And you can weld in LW without a bug because that tool is over 20 years old and they've barely touched modeler in that 20 years. Not surprising its stable by now, wouldn't you say?


    Yes, other devs do daily builds, unreal releases tonnes, very often too.
    If they did this with 3ds Max I simply wouldn't even bother downloading each update. They take a good hour to install each time, and that's on a mega fast SSD. Anyway... As far as being able to weld using a tool, you're now plucking at another string, which is totally irrelevant in terms of getting work done.
    My argument was, other developers release FINAL builds of a major version number, which are unusable, and don't update a pretty major bug like welding vertices. It happens... to all developers, and we have to report it... Then it'll get fixed.


    I wasn't actually saying Newtek release more bug fixes per year than any developer, I was meant to put any other software I use... the other major application that I use is 3dsmax, so I naturally compared it to that.
    Newtek will most likely never do daily public builds, but with daily builds you do run into problems.

    You also say 2018 was riddled with bugs... No more than other tools. I've been using it in production and despite finding one or two annoyances, there are workarounds which I employed and it worked absolutely fine.

    I still don't understand why you hang around here still, being negative and stuff? All you're doing is being overly negative about literally anything, around a forum which is users of THIS software tool. You would NEVER see me over on the Modo forum spouting negative comments, because it's just quite rude. Maybe rudeness is different where you're from?
    Last edited by lardbros; 10-13-2018 at 01:36 AM.
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  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by lardbros View Post

    I still don't understand why you hang around here still, being negative and stuff? All you're doing is being overly negative about literally anything, around a forum which is users of THIS software tool. You would NEVER see me over on the Modo forum spouting negative comments, because it's just quite rude. Maybe rudeness is different where you're from?
    I'm only hanging around until I sell my LW 2015 license.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    I'm only hanging around until I sell my LW 2015 license.
    We've put up with your negativity even though you left the ship years ago. Yet you continue harassing NT and Lightwave users with your negative opinions, you are of course fine to have opinions, but honestly. Leave already, stop wasting your time with hating and spreading your personal dismay over everybody else, we don't care.

    Also: https://www.g2crowd.com/products/lightwave-3d/reviews

    Real nice of you... I like how you speak about a toxic community, when you yourself is the epicenter of all negativity more times than I can count.

  14. #44
    Super Member Chris S. (Fez)'s Avatar
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    I don't think that review was deserved. Newtek is a small business that has invested relatively substantially, given the clearly limited resources compared to Autodesk, in Core and Lightwave with little return on the investment. The fact that Newtek still employs a team of full-time developers is proof that they are still investing in Lightwave. Manpower is by far the biggest expense for running a tech company and the main development team is still intact. Some comments in that review smack of NDA or hearsay from disgruntled ex-employees. Mentioning that stuff privately is one thing but posting on a public review site? Asking for trouble my friend.

    The 2018 renderer is underrated because of the steep learning curve. I use it alongside Max with Arnold for hi-rez print projects and the LW 2018 renderer is much more interactive, particularly when employing limited region. Open multiple rendering windows and LW 2018 still gives great feedback.

    With the confirmed viewport performance improvements in 2019, LW is going to be a fast, fun option for many projects, particularly with Octane.

    My hope for 2019 to make it more competitive:
    1) Hi DPI monitor support for both Layout and Modeler.
    2) Stabilize the Hub, since integration is unlikely.
    3) Optimize the 2018 renderer for final production renders and possibly add a progressive mode.
    4) Consolidated, interactive modeling, mapping and real-time game tools...because "game tools" are going to become THE tools sooner rather than later, at least judging by the pace of Unreal, Unity and Octane.
    5) Continue to create hooks for OD Tools and make sure Octane integration is as seamless as possible.
    6) Make an effort to bring valuable 3rd Parties like Dpont back in the fold

    Basically, Newtek needs to focus on performance, usability, stability and compatibility.
    Last edited by Chris S. (Fez); 10-15-2018 at 02:04 PM.

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Nilsson View Post
    We've put up with your negativity even though you left the ship years ago. Yet you continue harassing NT and Lightwave users with your negative opinions, you are of course fine to have opinions, but honestly. Leave already, stop wasting your time with hating and spreading your personal dismay over everybody else, we don't care.

    Also: https://www.g2crowd.com/products/lightwave-3d/reviews

    Real nice of you... I like how you speak about a toxic community, when you yourself is the epicenter of all negativity more times than I can count.
    You just got on board LW last fall /winter during the peak of silence from NT, you really don't know when or anything about when I 'left the ship'.

    As far as the review, aside from the rumor about a possible sale of LightWave, did I state one thing about NT/LW that is untrue?

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