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Thread: Model looks different in vpr and render

  1. #1
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    Model looks different in vpr and render

    I am wondering if anybody can help me figure out what I did wrong or just how to fix this. I bought a model off turbosquid and it has uv mapped and everything and when I put the surfaces on it I get this. Click image for larger version. 

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    Now normally I would not have an issue with it because sometimes weird stuff happens with models I purchase but the weird thing is when I do a render or use vpr it looks like this Click image for larger version. 

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    I think when I pulled it first into modeler it said something about non planar polygons. I do not know an effective way to find and remove them or fix them. Is this the issue?

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    LightWave documentation BeeVee's Avatar
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    Non-planar polygons are often a bane of bought models. The easiest way to cure them is to triple everything (shift-T). Slightly more intelligent is to look in your Statistics window (which should be permanently open, IMHO) and check the non-planar entry. Hit the + at the left and then hit Shift-T to Triple all the non-planar polygons - a triangle is always planar. These are the easiest ways, but you can go further. If you have LWCAD installed, it has some better tools for curing non-planar polys.

    Hope this helps,

    B
    Ben Vost - NewTek LightWave 3D development
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  3. #3
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    I got the non planar polygons fixed. Thanks.

    It did not fix the weird look but it still comes out fine in a render so I will just run with it.

  4. #4
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    Ok, well...... I don't have any idea what I did but now it is looking fine in layout. It must have been something with the surfaces as I was changing them. Anyway, thanks.Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #5
    LightWave documentation BeeVee's Avatar
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    "Fine" seems a bit off, unless you want the bright white on the tiles and the doors?

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    Ben Vost - NewTek LightWave 3D development
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  6. #6
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    Yeah, I boosted up some lights as well. My lighting skills are about as good as my modeling ... severely lacking

    It does not look so bad in renders and vpr. I always seem to get that bright light in layout but they look ok in vpr and renders. I will have to keep learning the best lighting techniques.Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #7
    LightWave documentation BeeVee's Avatar
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    Yup, you have some serious Kliegs going on in there

    Keep going, you'll get there

    B
    Ben Vost - NewTek LightWave 3D development
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    Dell Server, Windows 10 Pro, Intel Xeon E3-1220 @3.10 GHz, 8 GB RAM, Quadro K620
    Laptop with Intel i7, nVidia Quadro 2000Mw/ 2GB (377.83 and 192 CUDA cores), Windows 10 Professional 64-bit, 8GB RAM
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Yeah, I boosted up some lights as well. My lighting skills are about as good as my modeling ... severely lacking

    It does not look so bad in renders and vpr. I always seem to get that bright light in layout but they look ok in vpr and renders. I will have to keep learning the best lighting techniques.Click image for larger version. 

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    You may want to start with just an environment light and in Backdrop, use Textured Environment or Image World loaded with a good outdoor HDRI image.

    Check HDRI haven for images like this one https://hdrihaven.com/hdri/?c=outdoor&h=spruit_sunrise.

    After you create the environment light, clear any other lights you might have in the scene and then check the scene in VPR and see how your lighting looks.

    Then you can add another light and balance the lux values with the environment light until you get the lighting and shadows you are looking for.

  9. #9
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    Thanks for the tip!

  10. #10
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Using sk_sunsky is also an option, and together with the new volumetric clouds, you may got something decent.
    its free over at dpont site...
    http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/Sunsky.html

    it is a bit broken for 2018 for some stuff, but mostly work ok.


    Skip clouds if you canīt handle the rendertimes though..then you only have the clear sky..but with more decent rendertimes, use radiosity on at around 50,75,100% depending on what kind of atmosphere you have in there for the light to disperse a certain amount of light.

    If you can ..avoid full front lighting, the light a bit from the side, a bit from the top is usually a good starting point, let radiosity do the rest..if not using radiosity, environment light could be a good alternative to fill in the global illumination.
    Distant light with 0,52 or some values above..will generate a softer falloff shadow.

    Textured environment probe images is of course faster to render, but then you must ensure the main light matches the lighting in the environment image, and you can not animate it unless itīs a movie clip.

    Raising sun intensity100-150 may also help resulting in a stronger sunlight which often is usual if there isnīt any mist, fog or clouds to disperse the sunlight.

    Cloud shadows if clouds are in the image is important to sell the thing, if you do not use volumetric clouds as I did in this image, then you could map a cloud map on to a transparent plane or dome and hide that from render, but use another dome with exactly the same spherical cloud map for diffuse/ color, if you parent them to eachother and use the exat same ref null, then you can scale and rotate and the cloud shadows raytraced on the ground will be matched exactly as to cloud background image.


  11. #11
    Male Modeler ccclarke's Avatar
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    As a wise man once told me, the Rule Of Thumb where lighting is concerned is, "You can have a beautiful model with poor lighting and it will look awful. But you can have a poor model with great lighting and make it look amazing." Improve your lighting skills (and there are LW-specific books that explain how) and you'll take your renders to the next level.

    To touch on BeeVee's reply to "triple everything", I would use the Statistics panel (in polygon mode) to highlight the non-planar polys, (using the "+" adjacent to the heading) and then triple them. If you do that and it still shows non-planar polys, highlight them again, and press the Delete key. I keep as many quads as possible to lower the poly count rather than triple everything - especially with imported OBJ models that are all triangles.

    Also remove single and two-point polys. (There are times when they are useful, but rarely, and definitely not when you're beginning to learn modeling.) VPR and FPrime (its predecessor) will also sometimes show fractured renders with n-gons, (polys with more than four sides) but render fine. In that case, you can triple them and they'll preview normally.

    As previously stated, it's a good idea to always keep the Statistics panel open when modeling, fixing problems on the fly before they have a chance to develop into Big problems later. I have rarely downloaded a "professionally-made" model that was clean when initially checked with the Statistics panel.


    Cheers!

    CC

  12. #12
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Using sk_sunsky is also an option, and together with the new volumetric clouds, you may got something decent.
    its free over at dpont site...
    http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/Sunsky.html

    it is a bit broken for 2018 for some stuff, but mostly work ok.
    Here, SK Suncolor, Sun Motion and Texture / Environment appear to work. Atmosphere, Sun Light, Sky Light, and Portal Light all appear broken / disabled in LW2018.0.x (specs per sig). Alas, the loss of both Atmosphere and Sun Light are serious, as they represented significant chunks of Sunsky's overall value (IMO).

    You can kind of replace Sun Light using a distance light with Suncolor and Sun Motion, but distant lights "breed" fireflies in LW2018, so that's a bit of a mixed bag as a workaround. There's really nothing in LW2018 that makes up for the loss of Atmosphere, IMO -- the native volumetric fog option can produce tolerable distance haze results, though, just takes tweaking.
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2018.0.7 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),32GB RAM, NV 980ti

  13. #13
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    Here, SK Suncolor, Sun Motion and Texture / Environment appear to work. Atmosphere, Sun Light, Sky Light, and Portal Light all appear broken / disabled in LW2018.0.x (specs per sig). Alas, the loss of both Atmosphere and Sun Light are serious, as they represented significant chunks of Sunsky's overall value (IMO).

    You can kind of replace Sun Light using a distance light with Suncolor and Sun Motion, but distant lights "breed" fireflies in LW2018, so that's a bit of a mixed bag as a workaround. There's really nothing in LW2018 that makes up for the loss of Atmosphere, IMO -- the native volumetric fog option can produce tolerable distance haze results, though, just takes tweaking.
    I havenīt noticed fireflies really with distant lights, and on rare occasion, ray recursion reduction fixes it.

    As for sk sun motion ..no I donīt think it works as it should..have to check again, there was something that was broken there as I recall of.
    The light types is broken though as you say.

    dpont Atmosphere not working havenīt checked that really, and why...well the Atmosphere addon for volumetrics in 2015 felt like a hack to me, and not very easy to use...nevermind that, use a volumetric item in box mode instead as fully movable and rescalable
    fog item, it will allow for catching godrays and also working with distant lights, width, height and depth of the item can be adjusted..but need tweaking balancing in the density and scattering etc depending on how you scale it, and
    unlike vue and terragen or ogo taiki, it isnīt infinite as a global volumetric layer..which will cause issues if you rotate the camera too much, for stills itīs good enough though and it should be better than the atmosphere hack from dpont.
    sun dispersion in this volumetric box scattering item can be tweaked with anisotrophy(asymmetry) and the other values to produce strong sunglow..or more dispersed over the scene.

    as seen in my scattering settings, scattering color is orange..while absorbtion is blue..and the more I increase absorbtion, the blue color in the volumetric scattering box item will vanish, sort of like how blue light isnīt penetrating through the thicker atmosphere layers and thus it takes on the orange scattering color..so that is what can be seen on the first image with the lower fog being orange brown red sort of.

    The native global volumetric scattering doesnīt work with distant light, and itīs very hard to get something working for larger scale.

    See my tests I started on yesterday...it is doable, takes a bit of work and getting to know how little values you need to use for it to work properly, the first image for instance...the volumetric box scattering is not very large in height and it doesnīt reach in front of the house...if I wanted to it would just be a matter of stretching that volumetric item to enclose the house as well and I would have a quite foggy day.

    Tiny amount of godrays are showing in the third and fourth image, itīs a distant light..but it is the volumetric item that does the trick, just as the trick some of us did with old hypervoxels, but this time with the new volumetric item primitive (not the global volumetric scattering, it should be none active)

    To sum it up..my advice would be..
    forget about dpont atmosphere, forget about the new Global volumetric scattering (for large vistas) use a volumetric item shaped as a box instead.




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  14. #14
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    I know this is an old topic but in case anybody has the same problem as me I figured out what fixed it because I had the issue again with another scene and different model. It is the smoothing in the surfaces. Once that is switched on it looks fine in the viewport. I am assuming this is something I did and not a bug but who knows.

  15. #15
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    Ok, I have the same issue with yet another model I purchased.... I know.... I just cannot help myself from buying models but here is the crazy thing. This image is in the editor of Lightwave 2018Click image for larger version. 

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    Now I loaded it into Lightwave 2015 Click image for larger version. 

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    So my question is do I need to start a new thread for this? Should I submit a bug?

    I do not model myself so I will need to use turbosquid for most things and if 2018 and newer versions will not work with turbosquid that could be the last straw for me and I don't want that to be the case. I cannot express how much I like Lightwave compared to other software so I really want this stuff fixed.

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