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Thread: clouds?

  1. #211
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    Alas, I suspect few other users are willing to invest the level of time/experimentation you did in order to reach such capabilities. IMO, LW is moving in a really undesirable direction w.r.t. UI/UX and sheer investment of time/experimentation (in an increasingly experimentation-hostile environment) required to achieve acceptable results with features/"improvements".
    Yes...agree to some extent here, while you actually can get more realistic clouds in 2018, it is not as easy to work with, tweak and experiment as to what we have in the hypervoxels UI, a bit of a shame they couldnīt just introduce the new
    shading within that tab, also allowing for fast drop down switch to the old hypervoxels when needed, for surface liquids, sprites etc.

    It is a bit cumbersome to make sure you select the right item, and you can not have any other item selectable and move around in order to tweak the volumetrics, that you could do with old hypervoxels Regardless of which item you were selecting or moving around in the scene, you could always just click in the hv menu tab list and deselect, deactivate, select what ever item you wanted to adjust in shading, while still moving around other elements.

    Guess they need to fix that appliance thing firstly, meaning volumetrics on to points which is lacking now, and perhaps they will consider the workflow of being able to choose a hypertexture directly as superior in workflow ..rather than the necessary enter nodes, add node, connect the nodes.

    Pulling that off initiall, then carry on with making the rendering of volumetrics faster, (probably GPU neede, then an option to make any shape volumetric ala houdini, (not blender or modo object to volumetrics, itīs not good)
    and make sure some illumination deep scattering can occour for that extra cloud lighting effect.

    Once that is done, most stuff is done for the actual cloud stuff, and they need to move on to global scattering spectral algorithms ..working on global earth scale, with fog levels.

  2. #212
    Super Member JohnMarchant's Avatar
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    Yes NT seem to have given with one hand and taken away with the other.
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  3. #213
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMarchant View Post
    Yes NT seem to have given with one hand and taken away with the other.
    Yes perhaps ..but more constructively would be to show them where things in the workflow have gone from better to worse.
    I have written about it many times now..in the forums, but maybe more directed suggestions and pointing out would be better served if aimed at for instance Janti or some others.

    I could also do video recordings showasing the Beneifits of old hv UI VS the new volumetrics, however...this requires som time effort from me, and with a knowledge or trust in that someone at newtek actually sees it, or listens to
    what I and other users writes, ensuring that means a two way communication..and I havenīt seen any responses from the development team regarding these issues..which sorts of reduces my will of trying to explain it better with recordings.

    the thing with the old hv worklow, you could have the menu open at all times, or minimized while working ..moving on other elements..moving around, then just check the desired item in the list to edit, that is now impossible and each time you move a light or camera or other objects, you will loose any volumetric item selection AND editing..which requires you to find the right one and open properties, entering nodes again etc..not very good workflow for volumetrics, I have praised Lightwave before with the old hvīs how it was one of the easiest to setup and work with...though it of course takes some training to understand the shading, but workflow wise..one of the best.

    They do listen from time to time, fixing surface adding in new 2018 so we do not get double surfaces(which I often pointed out..and now is fixed) so you need to find out ways to attract their attention.

  4. #214
    Super Member JohnMarchant's Avatar
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    So have i. Like i cant use TFD and the new volumetrics together. HV and Partlces still have a place for many things. Yes of course that is as much jascha problem as NT. Volumetric objects are good for some things and situations, but in other times they are not. I think now they are knuckling down to sort out modeler, which im greatful for.
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  5. #215
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Bumping this again,

    Since Dpont now updated sunsky to work with 2018, as well as Rman node texture collection is also now working, previously in 2018 we had to acess any such texture with the
    extra color layer or scale layer, with this we now have more option to control the rman texture with other nodes.







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  6. #216
    hey prometheus any update on clouds with lw 2019
    Last edited by mav3rick; 01-31-2019 at 10:33 AM.
    new web page up www.null.hr

  7. #217

    should be able to create some cool new effects with 2019.
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  8. #218
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mav3rick View Post
    hey prometheus any update on clouds with lw 2019
    Ivé been sick with pneumonia for some weeks, and have only strength to read som mail and maybe some forum threads, but I havenīt got any strength to work/play with any 3D stuff.
    Thus I have decided to not even download and install the new 2019 until I get some strength back...I reckon it may take several days more before that happens.

    Sure..I am excited to try it out, but my energy is reserved to take care of laundry and other home stuff first.

  9. #219
    Super Member CaptainMarlowe's Avatar
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    Hope you get well soon. Pneumonia is not a funny experience, I got one a few years ago, certainly the most painful illness I had with Dengue.

  10. #220
    Man of many cells. shrox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Ivé been sick with pneumonia for some weeks, and have only strength to read som mail and maybe some forum threads, but I havenīt got any strength to work/play with any 3D stuff.
    Thus I have decided to not even download and install the new 2019 until I get some strength back...I reckon it may take several days more before that happens.

    Sure..I am excited to try it out, but my energy is reserved to take care of laundry and other home stuff first.
    Do get better!
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  11. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Ivé been sick with pneumonia for some weeks, and have only strength to read som mail and maybe some forum threads, but I havenīt got any strength to work/play with any 3D stuff.
    Thus I have decided to not even download and install the new 2019 until I get some strength back...I reckon it may take several days more before that happens.

    Sure..I am excited to try it out, but my energy is reserved to take care of laundry and other home stuff first.
    ofcourse health first ! get well soon!
    new web page up www.null.hr

  12. #222
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Well..I am well enough now.
    just installed 2019..
    first test ..checking the build in sunsky..itīs there natively now..how much it differs from dpont sunsky I donīt know..good itīs there natively finally though.

    just tested metamorphic for an half hour, cool, but needs faster acess and needs to work faster on denser meshes.

    so..then I got around to try some objects to volume, unfortunately I was trying to feed certain outputs to wrong inputs it seems, and lightwave just shut down twice on me without any crash report.
    and when I try to restart..layout is missing all the top menus, so something is screwed up with the configs it seems.

    the reason for me trying various inputs..I couldnīt get the emission color to react on this vdb converted mesh, so I guess itīs another approach needed, though I think it is odd that should be needed.

  13. #223
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    well...managed to delete the configs and get the menu back again after lightwave just shutting down.

    tried out the advection tool, to deform the mesh to volume, got it working sort of..but not from frame one, so I need to figure that out, it is a velocity advection so I need to check that.
    also scrubbing the timeline with this, and lightwave just freezes...and I am not getting anywhere in fast pace with this, I may be treating it wrong though.

    Generally..trying to advect a mesh to volume to create additionally noise in a cloud volume, the workflow and approach isnīt very initiuive for me, I find it much easier to work with houdini cloudfx tools for similar advection stuff, and it works more as excpected.

    That said, it may be to early for me to give a decent opinion on it..but itīs my first experience and reaction on it, right now just frustration on that Lightwave freezes with my initial advection setuy, and why the emission color scale and color settings doesnīt work with mesh to volume..that buggers me.

  14. #224
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    To get the emission color working, we need to also plug the same grid output in to the input emission grid, that will get the color emission working and the scale settings as well.

    I think that should be the default setting within a scene of this type.
    Se image of nodes, both scattering grid and emission grid is used.

    comparing just using procedurals and volume primitives, using a converted mesh is a bit slow for my liking, but it is promising, if I can solve it and get decent speed feedback, it opens up for more designed clouds.
    Need to check various ways first to allow advection per first frame..or just static advection.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  15. #225
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    I am glad to see that we finally have a way to convert a mesh to volume, the tech is interesting and will allow for more designed stuff...though I have a reservation for it being of good practical use... as it stands now I feel that the rendering becomes very slow..compared to using just a volume item, it may be that I havenīt learned the tools to optimize them yet.

    Otherwise I see two other major important features that may expand on cloud design.

    1. clone volume items as slaves, this means that any change I do in scattering, emission or with the texture ..it will propagate through all the other cloned nulls, If I have them set as slaves (the old dynamit plugin had this)
    this will allow for cloud consistency directly viewable with feedback once you start to tweak the master.

    2. Points...Points, we need this volumetrics to work on points just as old Hvīs does.

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