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Thread: Why would not Newtek cooperate with developers of third-party renderers?

  1. #46
    Super Member samurai_x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    Other vendors have been able to add PBR rendering to their renderer without throwing out the whole thing and starting over. And it didn't take them 3 years to do it.
    Yeah its too bad.

    Anyway regarding gpu, cpu, why do people insists its one or the other. It can be a hybrid.
    I've been doing benchmarks all week using Cycles. Even though I hate using blender, the latest update with the hybrid renderer is just waaay coool.
    We have some coreI3 dualcores that renders 4 times slower the speed of a typical corei7 quadcore.
    I slapped a super cheap 1030 gt on the corei3 and turned on hybrid mode. It renders faster than the coreI7.

    corei3 cpu - 12 min
    corei7 cpu - 3:37 min

    corei3 with 1030gt hybrid mode - 3:08 min

    Gpu really makes renderers fast. Especially if the user knows what they're doing. Too bad we got a cpu only renderer in 2018.
    Like I always mention, octane is slow. Only reason it was fast is because its gpu. Maxwell would be faster on gpu. Compared to Redshift.....

  2. #47
    Super Member Chris S. (Fez)'s Avatar
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    Eh. I'm eager to see how Lightwave's new render engine progresses.

  3. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by samurai_x View Post
    Yeah its too bad.

    Anyway regarding gpu, cpu, why do people insists its one or the other. It can be a hybrid.
    I've been doing benchmarks all week using Cycles. Even though I hate using blender, the latest update with the hybrid renderer is just waaay coool.
    We have some coreI3 dualcores that renders 4 times slower the speed of a typical corei7 quadcore.
    I slapped a super cheap 1030 gt on the corei3 and turned on hybrid mode. It renders faster than the coreI7.

    corei3 cpu - 12 min
    corei7 cpu - 3:37 min

    corei3 with 1030gt hybrid mode - 3:08 min

    Gpu really makes renderers fast. Especially if the user knows what they're doing. Too bad we got a cpu only renderer in 2018.
    Like I always mention, octane is slow. Only reason it was fast is because its gpu. Maxwell would be faster on gpu. Compared to Redshift.....
    yes that would be really something usefull, been playing at it with me self. But with amd pro render.
    I'm a Norwegian photographer, check out my web site www.fotofashion.no

  4. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Fotofashion View Post
    My testing shows that I would need 3x 1080 Tis to beat the 1950x in render time, a bit disapointed bout the render time for octane.

    Attachment 141900
    So youre comparing an unbiased renderer to interpolated? And 10000 samples... That might have something to do with it... If you configure octane properly, you will find different results.
    Last edited by hrgiger; 05-31-2018 at 07:50 PM.

  5. #50
    Almost newbie Cageman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ztreem View Post
    Arnold is native i Maya and also own by Autodesk. Maya is more famous for animation not rendering. I don’t get your point?
    Arnold is native, yes... but also limited, unless you pay up for it, as an extra cost, per rendernode!
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  6. #51
    Hybrid is a great option

    iray
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    renderman

    arnold is wip
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  7. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    So youre comparing an unbiased renderer to interpolated? And 10000 samples... That might have something to do with it... If you configure octane properly, you will find different results.
    Yes, I run a test scene as is.
    Well the lw native render is set to high samples to, as in camera samples, wich we know really hits render time.

    Nothing would have made me more happier if 2x 1080ti, could be faster then my cpu. then I would have added octane as a renderer.
    Last edited by Fotofashion; 06-01-2018 at 12:35 AM.
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  8. #53
    Super Member vncnt's Avatar
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    How much render work does one exactly need in order to make profit on GPU rendering, compared for instance with buying extra computers with strong CPU's but simple GPU, fast drive, fast network and built-in power supply?

    Include:
    - learning process
    - surface/material/light conversion and tweaking for each model/scene
    - hardware selection/buying/installation/maintenance
    - hardware compatibility and driver issues
    - risk spreading (hw failures, up-time optimization, ...)
    - discussions in newsgroups
    - alternative use for GPU's and computers while not rendering (modeling, painting, research, multiple employees, ...)
    - external renderfarm

    There must be a formula for this so that each user can decide for himself what the best solution is.

    I think I don't need that kind of complexity in my systems but I understand some of us are willing to overcome this. For them, I hope NT will build a giant golden plug + manual for external developers.

    However, animators are looking forward to see some improvements on the feature side of animation.
    Speed has a lower priority to me (us?) because I donīt need gigantic speed for storytelling - I do need a smarter timeline, weight painting, and deformations.

    Animation is the area that needs more development in my opinion.
    Last edited by vncnt; 06-01-2018 at 02:49 AM.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by vncnt View Post
    How much render work does one exactly need in order to make profit on GPU rendering, compared for instance with buying extra computers with strong CPU's but simple GPU, fast drive, fast network and built-in power supply?

    Include:
    - learning process
    - surface/material/light conversion and tweaking for each model/scene
    - hardware selection/buying/installation/maintenance
    - hardware compatibility and driver issues
    - risk spreading (hw failures, up-time optimization, ...)
    - discussions in newsgroups
    - alternative use for GPU's and computers while not rendering (modeling, painting, research, multiple employees, ...)
    - external renderfarm

    There must be a formula for this so that each user can decide for himself what the best solution is.

    I think I don't need that kind of complexity in my systems but I understand some of us are willing to overcome this. For them, I hope NT will build a giant golden plug + manual for external developers.

    However, animators are looking forward to see some improvements on the feature side of animation.
    Speed has a lower priority to me (us?) because I donīt need gigantic speed for storytelling - I do need a smarter timeline, weight painting, and deformations.

    Animation is the area that needs more development in my opinion.
    These are some good thoughts.

    One thing to consider (and I mentioned this before 2018 was out), that users have to relearn texturing, lighting and rendering in LW 2018 because of the new shading and rendering system. So moving from 2015 to 2018 requires additional learning and efforts to modify existing content - The same way as if you move to a different renderer. But this should have been clear, I don't understand why some users are puzzled that they have to learn something new. And it's not rocket science anyway.

    For GPU rendering I would like to add to your list that from my experience the GPUs are not so endurable like CPUs when used 100% all the time. When rendering long scenes with GPUs you can most likely expect to replace them after around 3 years (or earlier). Also power consumption and cooling needs to be considered. For long renders (several days) I prefer using CPU and not have my GPUs under 100% load for such a long period, while I can run 100% CPU utilization (even overclocked) for weeks.

  10. #55
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    Also a bad update and bam! you're dead. Software faulting, speed loss, etc.

    Gpu is a very volatile world. I prefer CPU, with smart algorithms.

    Have you noticed the lag when loading the scene on gpu memory? No way to me.
    English is not my native language so please be patient.

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  11. #56
    Registered User tyrot's Avatar
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    salvador dont risk your own business..... did you see scene loading on Octane 4 ?

  12. #57
    Super Member Chris S. (Fez)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrot View Post
    salvador dont risk your own business..... did you see scene loading on Octane 4 ?
    Speak for yourself.

  13. #58
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    Yeah, I've seen it has improved a lot.

    Worth have a try, I'm waiting to test it with denoiser also.

    The problem is today I had two layout crashes when importing a live material, and lost about half an hour of work. This is what I mean of stability.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I think is better LW develop some architecture to use gpu as an assistant to the cpu render, for example for the interpolate calculation.
    Or like clarisse, to add optix denoiser only.
    English is not my native language so please be patient.

    Salvador Ureņa
    http://urenasalvador.wixsite.com/portfolio

  14. #59
    Super Member samurai_x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vncnt View Post
    How much render work does one exactly need in order to make profit on GPU rendering, compared for instance with buying extra computers with strong CPU's but simple GPU, fast drive, fast network and built-in power supply?


    However, animators are looking forward to see some improvements on the feature side of animation.
    Speed has a lower priority to me (us?) because I donīt need gigantic speed for storytelling - I do need a smarter timeline, weight painting, and deformations.

    Animation is the area that needs more development in my opinion.

    Buying a cpu render node even with the cheapest components plus windows os is more expensive than a mid tier gpu(1060 gtx). That gpu is atleast 3 times faster.
    The low end 1030 gt is dirt cheap and performs faster than a coreI7 quad. Its cheaper than windows os itself. Upgrading a couple of old computers with it is very cost effective.

    I do agree there are more pressing issues than the renderer in lw 2018 such as the core workflow being split, animation, rigging.
    I personally didn't have a problem with lw 2015's renderer which is still more versatile.
    Probably better to spend more dev time on other aspects and not the renderer again and again. Too many lw upgrades have focused on rendering.
    Would much rather they try to integrate Cycles if it turns out to be the cheapest hybrid renderer out there.

  15. #60
    Registered User tyrot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris S. (Fez) View Post
    Speak for yourself.
    what you mean.. GPU rendering - is very solid .. and it can bring you fortune.. it did to me.. so plus Octane 4 is just so promising .. i cannot wait ..

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