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Thread: Lw2018.... A magazine review

  1. #121
    Registered User tyrot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qexit View Post
    Hm, with the price for a basic Octane License coming in at $589 due to this requirement:

    Important! OctaneRender™ for LightWave« requires an OctaneRender™ Standalone Edition license to function. If you do not already own a Standalone Edition license then make sure to choose “OctaneRender™ for LightWave« + Standalone Combo License” below."

    I would think that giving away an Octane license with future versions of LW would result in Newtek going bust which is probably not the best way to save LW
    dunno they gotta make a deal ... octane unity is free for 2 gpus already. they could pull out a deal ..

    Also octane 4 will be a game changer memory access afaik. So GPU memory limit wont be an issue..
    Last edited by tyrot; 05-23-2018 at 04:23 AM.

  2. #122
    Super Member CaptainMarlowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samurai_x View Post
    The fb lw group is a bunch of fanboys in GOD mode.
    And its a helpline for people who want to be spoon fed how to do their work. Lol
    Ha, the good old troll/fanboy dichotomy. So convenient.

  3. #123
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samurai_x View Post
    The fb lw group is a bunch of fanboys in GOD mode.
    And its a helpline for people who want to be spoon fed how to do their work. Lol
    Despite the emoticon, it's hard to see how such a condescending remark constitutes "professional and civil discourse regarding the use of NewTek products by those who own them".

    Demeaning other users doesn't do much to defend your point, and really, seems to be a lot closer to "Non-constructive criticism or remarks of a malicious nature; Personal attacks against individuals", which are verboten (not to mention rude).
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  4. #124
    Founding member raymondtrace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    ...it's hard to see how such a condescending remark...
    I'm assuming it is a joke as most everyone in that fb lw group is here as well. The conversations are identical (most often mirrors of what's posted here). I suspect the FB platform is more accessible for those passing time on "the can".
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  5. #125
    NewTek Social Media Chuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    Here's an unbiased review of 2018 (review starts about 5 min in)
    Describing this video as unbiased is remarkably incorrect given that the overwhelming majority of time is spent on ad hominem attacks on people who have expressed any opinion about LightWave 3D 2018 that differs from his own. This video is a litany of biases, specifically character attacks on anyone who has anything good to say about LightWave 2018, and on both the character and the competence of the people at NewTek working on LightWave. The amount of time actually spent talking about LightWave itself is minimal, only momentary breaks in the stream of derisive commentary on persons, and does not include any original feedback nor is any of the video content itself directed at supporting that feedback. It's a static shot of him moving a mouse around over his YouTube page, interrupted only briefly by a static shot of him moving a mouse around over a forum page.

    So, it seems likely the long stream of scorn rather than the tiny bit of actual review is why you wanted to share this. Your choice to share this while calling it an "unbiased review" does not leave much room for any interpretation other than that for you "unbiased" means opinions you agree with and "biased" means those you don't.

    As someone with an interest in LightWave advancing to better meet your needs for your 3D work, please consider that slash and burn toward people with opinions that differ from your own is not going to accomplish that. As a template for civil discussion here, just say what you are dissatisfied with in the product or policies, and say you want in the product or policies and restrict your debate with others to the products and policies and not character. When you make the discussion about calling what others have to say lies and you impugn their decency and integrity, that does not strengthen your points, and in fact only erodes your own credibility and respect within the community as a whole, regardless whatever fanboys of rudeness, disrespect and incivility may be present and try to claim otherwise.
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  6. #126
    Registered User tyrot's Avatar
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    i totally share his points about new renderer. what a time waste !

    So Chuck will you keep investing on new renderer ? will you reimport old renderer to LW2018 ... or how about full Octane integration ?

    There are users here just for bashing LW but Bryphii is not one of them. The time and work he invested Lightwave and videos in his channels utterly valuable for current LW users.

    He speaks his mind very directly (personally he cooked me several times) but this does not eliminate his immense effect of LW workflows and training.

    I would rather have more Bryphii style hard core LW users than - totally biased LW bashers... Because he put lots of work into LW than many of us here. We cannot afford to lose one more user like him.

    We are a dying breed and NT is not making things easy for many of us. I refuse NT's silence from now on. A clear road map - is needed especially on renderer.

  7. #127
    Robert Ireland bobakabob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    Describing this video as unbiased is remarkably incorrect given that the overwhelming majority of time is spent on ad hominem attacks on people who have expressed any opinion about LightWave 3D 2018 that differs from his own. This video is a litany of biases, specifically character attacks on anyone who has anything good to say about LightWave 2018, and on both the character and the competence of the people at NewTek working on LightWave. The amount of time actually spent talking about LightWave itself is minimal, only momentary breaks in the stream of derisive commentary on persons, and does not include any original feedback nor is any of the video content itself directed at supporting that feedback. It's a static shot of him moving a mouse around over his YouTube page, interrupted only briefly by a static shot of him moving a mouse around over a forum page.

    So, it seems likely the long stream of scorn rather than the tiny bit of actual review is why you wanted to share this. Your choice to share this while calling it an "unbiased review" does not leave much room for any interpretation other than that for you "unbiased" means opinions you agree with and "biased" means those you don't.

    As someone with an interest in LightWave advancing to better meet your needs for your 3D work, please consider that slash and burn toward people with opinions that differ from your own is not going to accomplish that. As a template for civil discussion here, just say what you are dissatisfied with in the product or policies, and say you want in the product or policies and restrict your debate with others to the products and policies and not character. When you make the discussion about calling what others have to say lies and you impugn their decency and integrity, that does not strengthen your points, and in fact only erodes your own credibility and respect within the community as a whole, regardless whatever fanboys of rudeness, disrespect and incivility may be present and try to claim otherwise.
    Thanks, Chuck and Steve, very reasonable responses from NT, considering. This forum has always had such potential for mature constructive debate, sharing of knowledge and art. It is an invaluable source of knowledge. Unfortunately a few users take advantage of the fact you don’t run your forums like Autodesk. If you did, they would have been toast a long time ago.

    The trolling from a few individuals here (some of whom contribute nothing, are quick to denigrate but don’t own the current software or understand how it works) is infantile enough for some professionals and serious users to leave the forum. Which is perversely the outcome they want. It’s not an easy one to crack as LW will only benefit from open minded debate without autocratic censorship. However, you’re well within your rights as the hosts of a forum to remind everyone of the house rules and kick a few arses if need be. You must despair sometimes. If only some users here were as reasonable and professional.

    And sorry, Tyrot, yes constructive debate is essential. But ‘speaking your mind’ doesn’t always equate to ranting.
    Last edited by bobakabob; 05-23-2018 at 05:11 PM.
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  8. #128
    Registered User tyrot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobakabob View Post

    And sorry, Tyrot, yes constructive debate is essential. But ‘speaking your mind’ doesn’t equate to ranting.
    ranting is pretty efficient if you look at the discussions .. we have become sensitive snowflakes... bring the noise and fire Something totally positive will come out from it.

  9. #129
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrot View Post
    ranting is pretty efficient if you look at the discussions .. we have become sensitive snowflakes... bring the noise and fire Something totally positive will come out from it.
    if you call many of the more serious Lightwave users having left the forums in recent years specifically because it was overrun by trolls positive, I guess you're right. The fact is, though, that ranting is childish. (And yes, I'm aware that there are also those who left for other reasons. For those who remain, however, we will see to it that reasonable civility is the rule.)
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  10. #130
    Robert Ireland bobakabob's Avatar
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    @Tyrot, Well if you think shouting, ranting and unprofessional behaviour is OK, good luck with that, you might one day become a world leader. Let’s leave it there before breaking forum rules...
    Last edited by bobakabob; 05-23-2018 at 05:10 PM.
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  11. #131
    Registered User tyrot's Avatar
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    ok one last message to you and SBowie..

    allowing toxication of a couple of totally biased - LW basher users is ok.? They simply spread words of mockery to current and ex-users in almost every positive Lightwave thread.. and they are allowed because they use a calm language?

    and you say this is NOT ok ... simply ranting about very core decisions on LW's future and warning them about their collossal mistakes while doing dozens of genius level LW tutorials.

  12. #132
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrot View Post
    ok one last message to you and SBowie..

    allowing toxication of a couple of totally biased - LW basher users is ok.? They simply spread words of mockery to current and ex-users in almost every positive Lightwave thread.. and they are allowed because they use a calm language?
    No, that's not ok either, and we have been engaging those who have done this much more aggressively this year, as must be clear to anyone who has been paying much attention.
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  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by tyrot View Post
    i totally share his points about new renderer. what a time waste !
    Maybe not your thing which is fine, but for us it was time well spent - so far we love it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tyrot View Post
    So Chuck will you keep investing on new renderer ?
    Valid question since they let the developer go. I would hope they would.

    Quote Originally Posted by tyrot View Post
    will you reimport old renderer to LW2018
    Now in my opinion that would be a waste of time. What makes more sense is for that everybody who bought 2018 they get a complimentary copy of LW2015

    Quote Originally Posted by tyrot View Post
    ... or how about full Octane integration ?
    Cost prohibitive most likely for NT to undertake.

    Quote Originally Posted by tyrot View Post
    There are users here just for bashing LW but Bryphii is not one of them. The time and work he invested Lightwave and videos in his channels utterly valuable for current LW users.

    He speaks his mind very directly (personally he cooked me several times) but this does not eliminate his immense effect of LW workflows and training.

    I would rather have more Bryphii style hard core LW users than - totally biased LW bashers... Because he put lots of work into LW than many of us here. We cannot afford to lose one more user like him.
    He has amazing knowledge of nodes and the inner workings and if I were running NT I'd bring him into San Antonio and have a sit down with him and possibly offer him a job.

    Quote Originally Posted by tyrot View Post
    We are a dying breed and NT is not making things easy for many of us. I refuse NT's silence from now on. A clear road map - is needed especially on renderer.
    We very well could be. Our marketing team is transitioning to 3DS Max but mostly yo keep in lock step with vendors and their requirements.
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  14. #134
    Super Member samurai_x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    Despite the emoticon, it's hard to see how such a condescending remark constitutes "professional and civil discourse regarding the use of NewTek products by those who own them".
    You want to read condescending remark go to the FB group and mention you still use 2015.
    If you post anything negating their views over there the GODS basically delete your post.

    Just ask Lino.......

    And its basically true about people asking for help. Its pathetic that people ask for help on their own PAID work. Sometimes asking for scene files how to do it.

    So I'm not really saying anything that is not true.

  15. #135
    Super Member samurai_x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    Here's an unbiased review of 2018 (review starts about 5 min in)

    What I got from the video is that the new renderer is a waste of years of development that doesn't really offer more than what Octane is capable of speedwise. That's true even with octane turtle gpu renderer. I'd rather have Redshift.

    Second is so much functionality was lost when a lot of plugins especially DP plugins are no longer supported in 2018. That's true as well.

    He doesn't mention breaking major compatibility with scenes and models pre 2018. But its a big factor for many people I know. And Cress mentioned that as well in his post there.

    So some people will probably focus on how the video is more about bashing Newtek but to me that got filtered out. The points he made are clear and true.

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